12/11/2002 Entry: "George Bush - He means what he says."
vox
Viewer Commentary: 272 comments
Fantastic - really great. I'm from Canada, and I'm telling you, you Americans better get your fucking act together and get rid of this jerk in the white house. Don't you all see what a blatant criminal this guy is???
ATTENTION: ALL CITIZENS OF THE WORLD. BOYCOTT EVERYTHING AMERICAN UNTIL THE AMERICANS GET THE GUTS TO RID OF THIS FUCKING ASSHOLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
Montreal.
Posted by Walt Whitman @ 12/11/2002 11:37 AM EST
Yeah, Someone better manage Bushes utterances better. I mean every time Bush opens his mouth it is an open invitation for anyone with a brain to make a mockery out of what comes out. The man is a fucking idiot.
Posted by Duncan White @ 12/11/2002 11:43 AM EST
One word sums it up...NIMROD!
Posted by Frasier @ 12/11/2002 12:17 PM EST
Then again who really cares what he says at all. He is not incharge-except for looking like a donkey. Daddy Bush and his merry band of phycho satanists are the ones we should be watching. Anybody got some Anthrax? I got the stamps.
Posted by sandman420 @ 12/11/2002 01:07 PM EST
Hey, has anyone noticed just how much Dubya smirks and grins whenever he addresses the nation or otherwise.
It dont matter how grim the topic of conversation might be George cannot help but do this smirking and grinning . If you watch him closely you can see him doing it, usually after he's spouted some crazy bullshit. Its probably due to the fact that he is having just so much fun with his cronies fucking everybody on the planet and getting away with it!!!
Posted by TheRoach @ 12/11/2002 01:19 PM EST
Hey, has anyone noticed just how much Dubya smirks and grins whenever he addresses the nation or otherwise.
It dont matter how grim the topic of conversation might be George cannot help but do this smirking and grinning . If you watch him closely you can see him doing it, usually after he's spouted some crazy bullshit. Its probably due to the fact that he is having just so much fun with his cronies fucking everybody on the planet and getting away with it!!!
Posted by TheRoach @ 12/11/2002 01:20 PM EST
Pity my poor boy. His brain cells were damaged from years of cocaine and alcohol abuse, and later, sniffing glue. He's really just a child trapped inside the body of a man. The globalists are using him as a herediatry pawn to carry out their sinister goals. George wants nothing more than to sit home at the pig farm in Crawdad and play with his Pokemon cards.
Posted by Cackling Granny Babs @ 12/11/2002 02:31 PM EST
Dubya is the perfect puppet for Poppy Bush's cabal of psychotics. It doesnn't matter what he says anymore, it has absolutely no meaning, nothing he says has a smidgen of critical thinking in it - As Putin said when Georgie was appointed, (paraphrase) "words die on his lips".
If there is a Gore/Bush re-match in '04 - Gore better watch his back.
Posted by fool on the hill @ 12/11/2002 03:29 PM EST
There's something wrong here...there are many people in the Bush administration that I hate.But-I just realized this today after seeing another shot of his mug in my paper-BUSH is the only (person?)whose FACE I just can't stand to look at.Just his FACE! Ahh!God! I had to cover it up so I could finish reading the article! So either he's a ROBOT or an ALIEN,but damnit,sum'n ain't RIGHT with him!!!
Posted by Weeping4America @ 12/11/2002 04:06 PM EST
Bush is there for ONE reason...and ONE REASON only and that is to feather...
U.S. CORPORATIONS AND ARMS MANUFACTURERS
Posted by Mech @ 12/11/2002 05:00 PM EST
Bush is a product of Poppy Bush - George is Poppy & the gang's robot...
google search THE TRUTH CAMPAIGN
site
and read article on mind control
the MK-ULTRA CIA project
"Mind Control Out of Control"--the name that comes up over and over again is George HW Bush.
Posted by fool on the hill @ 12/11/2002 05:40 PM EST
holy shit i just got a copy of the homeland security bill and in the middle of the mishmashed 484 pages i found this...
278
H.L.C.
(2) ACT OF TERRORISM.-(A) The term ''act of terrorism'' means any act that the Secretary deter- mines meets the requirements under subparagraph
(B), as such requirements are further defined and specified by the Secretary.
(B) REQUIREMENTS.-An act meets the requirements of this subparagraph if the act-
(i) is unlawful; 8
(ii) causes harm to a person, property, or entity, in the United States, or in the case of a domestic United States air carrier or a United States-flag vessel (or a vessel based principally in the United States on which United States income tax is paid and whose insurance coverage is subject to regulation in the United States), in or outside the United States; and
(iii) uses or attempts to use instrumentalities, weapons or other methods designed or in- tended to cause mass destruction, injury or other loss to citizens or institutions of the United States.
Now, terrorism is only terrorism if it is against the united states. Any violent crime is now defined as terrorism, whether someone is injured or not.
Posted by Ozgar Pugnus @ 12/11/2002 06:03 PM EST
I fucking hate our president and his administration of criminals! Why can't America wake the fuck up! How much more can they continue to cover up? Just you watch and see, they'll find no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so they will blow up another building and blame it on Saddam. This whole war on terrorism is so fucking phony. This war in Afganastan and Iraq is all about oil! People need to get the real news from honest and blunt sites such as this one, keep up the fight and death to Bush and the new world order!
-Rick Mythiasin
Posted by Rick Mythiasin @ 12/11/2002 06:15 PM EST
"When you see the 'abomination of desolation' [referring to the spirit of a man] (let the reader understand) standing in a place WHERE HE AUGHT NOT [anyone else see a George Bush here] then let those who are in Judea [ie in truth] flee to the mountains." [spititually and if possible physically remove themselves from society ie the herd]
Mark 13-14 and Matthew 24-15 (and Daniel 9-27)
This pretty much sums up the current situation.The ten districts of the world (Daniel and Revelations)haven't happened yet but we know they are in the planning as is the 'mark of the beast without which you can neither buy nor sell" (Revelations) in which case the 'abomination of desolation' would fit an anti-Pope and anti-christ but dubool-ye fits given the last election for president and God may be showing us a foretaste of whats to come as a preparation without which we may be totally overcome. also you Americans need to realize the fact that youre putting up with this guy and not rallying to overthrow him is because of your chemtrails and other powerful conditioning which is massively intensifying as we speak- so best follow the warning above.
Posted by charlie @ 12/11/2002 09:01 PM EST
Has anyone read the alleged rape charges against Bush which were posted on the indymedia site? A woman named Margie Schoedinger has filed suit in Ft. Bend County Texas alleging Bush raped her. You can find the documents at democraticunderground.com
Some guy, our Prez! He makes Clinton look like the tooth fairy!
Posted by baldymcgregor @ 12/11/2002 09:05 PM EST
..resistance is futile..
Posted by hairyfairy @ 12/11/2002 10:54 PM EST
I have to agree that Bush is one dumb
fucker,,how the fuck the American people voted for this idiot(or did they?)I will never know.I agree with the other posters that he is of course
just a front for billionaire bank lords perfect for the job.He can speak and go through the motions of a human being,,speak,move his hands,,he even has a programmed memory! but lacks anything resembling true humanity,,how could he being part of the murder of 3000 Americans?
Wouldn´t it be great if someone could slip an acid tab or some mind altering drug in his coffee just before he made a major speech!!!
Just imagine what would happen,,would he confess? would he break out of his somnambulistic satan possessed state!!"my father beat me,,he made me do it!"etc etc,,
Did anyone hear that some guy got jailed for cracking a joke about a burning Bush??America is turning into one scary place.
Posted by Rob the Scrutinizer @ 12/11/2002 11:52 PM EST
i fear to think what the future will be like, and i mean future like a year or two down the line, someone told me"dude all this nonesense will be over with when we elect another president" but i dont think so, no way in hell that bush and cheney and their thugs at the white house will create this machine of tyranny only to see it change by "some other guy we elect" makes the idea that presidents are selected not elected more credible, too much is at stake to let it all be decided by "election" anyways, what is needed in this country is a revolution, a revolution involving the majour part of this country. the second american revolution
Posted by jason @ 12/12/2002 12:00 AM EST
Well my above comment may not be far from the truth!
Bush isn't a moron, he's a cunning sociopath
By Bev Conover
Online Journal Editor & Publisher
December 5, 2002?If any of us are to have a future worth having,
the world's leaders, the members of Congress, the US corporate
media and people of all political persuasions who value freedom and
democracy had better start seeing George W. Bush for what he is:
a sociopath and a passive serial killer.
Psychiatrists tell us that all serial killers lack the emotions that
make us human; that they have to learn to emulate those emotions
in order to get by in society. Hence, a charming, well educated
fellow like Ted Bundy who is known to have murdered 15 women
and may have killed 36 before he was caught.
While Bush is no Bundy, when it comes Bundy's education and
acquired charm, and to our knowledge has never personally
murdered anyone, it has been evident to us that there is something
missing in George W. in terms of his lack of compassion and
empathy. As governor of Texas, he set a record in signing death
warrants?154 in five years. He even made fun of the way convicted
killer Karla Faye Tucker begged for her life.
If we believe the psychiatrists, a sign of a future serial killer is a
child who delights in torturing and killing animals. George W., as a
child, did exactly that. In a May 21, 2000, New York Times' puff
piece about the values Bush gained growing up in Midland, Texas,
Nicholas D. Kristof quoted Bush's childhood friend Terry
Throckmorton: "'We were terrible to animals,' recalled Mr.
Throckmorton, laughing. A dip behind the Bush home turned into a
small lake after a good rain, and thousands of frogs would come
out. 'Everybody would get BB guns and shoot them,' Mr.
Throckmorton said. 'Or we'd put firecrackers in the frogs and throw
them and blow them up.'"
On Sept. 12, 2000, Baltimore Sun reporter Miriam Miedzian wrote,
"So when he was a kid, George W. enjoyed putting firecrackers
into frogs, throwing them in the air, and then watching them blow
up. Should this be cause for alarm? How relevant is a man's
childhood behavior to what he is like as an adult? And in this case,
to what he would be like as president of the United States."
We're finding out, aren't we? While we, in two articles before the
2000 election?Sept. 21 and Oct. 23?noted Bush's penchant for
blowing up frogs, the corporate media blew it off, just as it had no
interest in what he was trying to hide by obtaining a new Texas
driver license and his 1976 drunk driving conviction, or the fact he
was AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard. Instead, they
bought into his nonsensical claim of being a "compassionate
conservative" and "a uniter not a divider" who was going to "restore
honor and dignity to the White House."
All through the 2000 campaign and up to Sept. 11, 2001, the
corporate media depicted Bush as an affable, tongue-tied
bumbler?the kind of guy Joe Six-pack would like to have a beer
with?turning a blind eye to his dark underside. It mattered not that
he stocked his illicit administration with the worst of the worst: John
Ashcroft, Donald Rumsfeld, Gale Norton, Paul O'Neill, Harvey Pitt,
Thomas White, John Negroponte, Otto Reich and convicted
Iran-contra felon Elliot Abrams who received a 1992 Christmas Eve
pardon from George W.'s father.
Then, despite his peculiar behavior on Sept. 11, the corporate
media and his handlers transformed him into a leader extraordinaire
in the mold of Franklin D. Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln and Winston
Churchill rolled into one.
And as Bush had Afghanistan bombed back beyond the Stone Age
to rid the world of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, then switched to
claiming it was the Taliban that had to go, then declared there was
an "axis of evil" and it was really Saddam Hussein who was the
"mother of all evil" and that war with Iraq was in the offing to get rid
of Saddam, the corporate media cheered him on and to this day
continues to beat the war drum. They have yet to consider that the
passive serial killer needs to feed his lust for blood by sending
others to put their lives on the line and do the killing for him.
In his Sept. 12 article, White House insiders say Bush is "out of
control," Mike Hersh wrote, "Some among Bush's trusted White
House staff fear what they are seeing and where Bush is taking us.
His state of mind hauntingly reminds them of Richard Nixon's Final
Days. They fear Bush is becoming Nixonesque . . . or worse.
Although Bush lacks Nixon's paranoia, he may entertain even more
dangerous notions."
But their desperate late night phone calls to trusted reporters has
not seen the light of day in the corporate media. Yet, some of us
outside the Beltway have long had an inkling of what we are dealing
with.
More proof lies in Alexandra Pelosi's documentary, Journeys with
George. Pelosi, the daughter of incoming House Minority Leader
Nancy Pelosi, was a producer for NBC when she wangled the
assignment to spend 18 months as part of Bush's campaign press
corps.
From the surface, Pelosi's "home movie," as she calls it, seems to
be nothing more than a love fest as George W. works to charm the
pants off her and the rest of the press corps. The striking thing
about this George, even though Karen Hughes is often seen
hovering at his elbow, is that he isn't tongue-tied when he is
pumping up his ego, dishing out digs and being sarcastic and
crude.
Mark Crispin Miller, author of The Bush Dyslexicon and professor of
media studies at New York University, who also sees the darker
Bush, said in a Nov. 28 interview with the Toronto Star, ""Bush is
not an imbecile. He's not a puppet. I think that Bush is a
sociopathic personality. I think he's incapable of empathy. He has
an inordinate sense of his own entitlement, and he's a very skilled
manipulator. And in all the snickering about his alleged idiocy, this
is what a lot of people miss."
Miller said he did intend The Bush Dyslexicon to be a funny book,
but that was before he read all the transcripts, which revealed,
according to reporter Murray Whyte, "a disquieting truth about what
lurks behind the cock-eyed leer of the leader of the free world. He's
not a moron at all on that point, Miller and Prime Minister Jean
Chretien agree."
"He has no trouble speaking off the cuff when he's speaking
punitively, when he's talking about violence, when he's talking about
revenge," Miller told Whyte. "When he struts and thumps his chest,
his syntax and grammar are fine. It's only when he leaps into the
wild blue yonder of compassion, or idealism, or altruism, that he
makes these hilarious mistakes."
In a speech last Sept. in Nashville, trying to strengthen his case
against Saddam, Bush's script called for him to say, "Fool me
once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." But the words
that came out of his mouth were, ""Fool me once, shame . . .
shame on . . . you," followed by a long pause, then, "Fool
me?can't get fooled again!"
Said Miller, "What's revealing about this is that Bush could not say,
'Shame on me' to save his life. That's a completely alien idea to
him. This is a guy who is absolutely proud of his own inflexibility
and rectitude."
Another example, Miller said, occurred early in Bush's White
House tenure when he said, "I know how hard it is to put food on
your family."
According to Miller, "That wasn't because he's so stupid that he
doesn't know how to say, 'Put food on your family's table'?it's
because he doesn't care about people who can't put food on the
table."
Miller told Whyte, ""When he tries to talk about what this country
stands for, or about democracy, he can't do it."
"This, then, is why he's so closely watched by his handlers, Miller
says not because he'll say something stupid, but because he'll
overindulge in the language of violence and punishment at which he
excels," Whyte wrote.
"He's a very angry guy, a hostile guy. He's much like Nixon. So
they're very, very careful to choreograph every move he makes.
They don't want him anywhere near protestors, because he would
lose his temper," Miller said.
"I call him the feel bad president, because he's all about
punishment and death," Miller told Whyte. "It would be a grave
mistake to just play him for laughs."
A grave mistake, indeed.
If all that has happened since Bush was first mentioned as a
possible GOP presidential candidate hasn't set off alarms, his
naming of war criminal, mass murderer and international fugitive
Henry Kissinger last week to head up the 9/11 investigation should
have. And this week another alarm should have gone off when Bush
promoted Elliot Abrams to lead the National Security Council's
office for Near East and North African affairs, which oversees
Arab-Israeli relations.
Bush must be stopped now, before he sets the world aflame. And
set it aflame is what he intends to do, even if Iraq has no "weapons
of mass destruction" or Saddam stands on his head, naked, on the
White House lawn.
.
Posted by Rob the Scrutinizer @ 12/12/2002 12:04 AM EST
Thank you, President Bush for your Eid greetings, we are indeed greatly indebted. And thank you for telling us, one more time, that your new war is not against Islam and Muslims. It was time that you reminded us that we should not take the B-52 bombers showering bombs on our cities so personally. Indeed, the six Iraqis who died on the first day of December are not to be counted among the dead; they were illegal combatants, working in an oil factory.
As Muslims, we are grateful to you for all the food packages that were sent down from the Afghan skies during the last year. Had we been the children of Israel, it would have reminded us of our great past when Manna and Salva was sent down by God. Let me assure you, Mr. President, American peanut butter tastes so good that our Afghan children became so keen to pick up the food packages that they could not even distinguish between the food packages and thousands of canister bombs that your B-52 bombers left behind in their wasteland. But, of course, it was their bad luck; we will just add them to the list of collateral damage. That way, we will not have to go through the tedious ritual of calculating the number of dead.
I am sorry to hear that things are not going well back home. Some unpatriotic Americans have started to ask questions about your war of terror, excuse me, war on terror. They ask for results for the 40 billion dollars you so graciously and hurriedly sanctioned for the great war. That little audio cassette that recently surfaced at the Al-Jazeera did not help much, I suppose. Although you have the Al-Jazeera's Kabul correspondent firmly locked up in a cage at camp X-ray (and thank God, the international union of journalists has not made a peep about him), this little island of a network keeps coming up with trouble after trouble.
You were, however, more successful with Herta Daeubler-Gmelin, the German Justice Minister who so rudely compared your new war policies to that of Adolf Hitler; thank goodness, she was quickly sacked by Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder for poisoning the relations. I must also congratulate you on quickly getting rid of Mme. Francoise Ducros, the Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien's Director of Communications, who so ungratefully called you a moron despite all the soft lumber that American companies so cheaply buy from Canada in order to help their economy.
Mr. President, it is heartening to know that the new Department of Homeland Security is finally off to a grand start. With an operational budget of $37.5 billion and nearly 170,000 federal employees, it should keep the homeland secure. Just let no American walk out of your great country without the protection of pilot-less drones for streets of the world have become very dangerous for them.
I hope that with your ambassador in London so ardently standing behind you in your war after war, it should not be difficult to soon control all the unruly streets. Whatever happened the other day in Amman should never be allowed to happen again. I think it would not be a bad idea to send a little congratulatory note to your distant relative in Amman for taking care of the matter so promptly. I hear the little town of Mann is also grateful to you for bringing all the world attention to this tribal region. The price those little rabbles had to pay was not much, I suppose, compared to what the Afghans have paid. It was merely a double digit number that they lost. But we will not call it war against Muslims; after all, it was their own king whose army was doing the job.
Mr. President, in your Eid greetings, you have rightly told us that the new year is full of promises. We look forward to the new ventures. Afghanistan is indeed becoming a little too dull and although great news is in store regarding Iraq, Hans Blix and his team of inspectors are taking too long. Please hurry up or else the current rating will start to go down and you know very well how difficult it is to whip up the hysteria once it has subsided.
You know that anthrax cannot be used again to create fear. (By the way, the little leak leading to the US military was plugged very well and I sincerely hope that all patriotic Americans will remember never to ask any questions about anthrax.) So, what are we going to do next time? How would you generate new waves of fear? I suppose those little Napoleons in thousands of homeland security offices would come up with something. Perhaps, you should ask them to start cooking something like the danger of a bio-engineered mosquito bringing a deadly virus. That would be something!
It is my sincere hope, Mr President, that in the new year, you will not be so lenient with men who keep bothering you with their silly questions about Afghanistan. I was shocked to read a report by one Robert Fisk who sketched a graphic picture of little children being blown up in the deserts of Khost. He also had the nerve to draw world attention to the endless queue of mutilated civilians sitting outside the hospital in Herat, hoping to get an artificial leg. Likewise, people who keep mentioning international laws, protocols and agreements should be stopped from reminding the world that in your war of terror (excuse my slip again, Mr. President), you have not even spared ambassadors. No one has the right to remind the world that Ambassador Mullah Zaeef is still locked up in a cage in Camp X-ray.
I am glad to know that early in 2003, Germans will take charge of the Afghan ordeal. It would be their boys who would risk their lives for this grand show which, we all know, will only last for as long as money keeps coming. But I am afraid, Afghans are rather notorious for their tenacity. There is little hope that what the Soviet Union could not achieve with 140,000 men, we can achieve without large-scale disasters soon erupting all over this unruly land. Those who keep saying that the Afghan adventure is headed for disaster should all be locked up with the "illegal combatants". (By the way, that was an excellent invention for which its inventor should be amply rewarded.)
That reminds me to say that events like the appearance of those four pictures of C-130 planes carrying their human cargo to Camp X-ray should not be allowed to happen again. They do bring the specter of war crimes being launched in some court, somewhere in the world although you have rightly declined to sign the international charter which would put the American soldiers in risk. But the images of those shackled men, which recently flashed on millions of computer screens around the world, was not nice, to say the least.
I am also sad to know that some Edward Saids are still around. They keep talking about an impossible linkage: the suffering of Palestinians, so carefully crafted by a 2.1 billion dollar annual aid to Israel and numerous supplements. They have maps, numbers and pictures which they keep showing to the world. The appearance of a new great wall here, barbed fences there, burned olive orchards, destroyed homes, pieces of dead bodies scattered on streets, made-in-America gun ships and helicopters bombing the refugee camps. Of course, your war is not against Muslims and certainly there is no link between the suffering of Palestinians and the catastrophes Americans continue to experience abroad. No, the world should accept the verdict of your "man of peace" who looks forward to his new term which will complete the task of fortification of Israel.
And finally, let me close by thanking you, once again, Mr. President, for the opportunity you so graciously provided to some of our Muslim brothers and sisters to come and visit you and Laura at the White House at the beginning of the month of Ramadan. That great occasion will always be remembered by them and their children and their children. They are eternally grateful to you and Laura. I am sure you also value their friendship because they the harbingers of an intellectual northern alliance you so desperately need at this time. With all the best wishes for your new year adventures I am, yours sincerely.
Posted by jason @ 12/12/2002 12:48 AM EST
Some of these views concur with what I saw of Bush on the Dave letterman show once during his election campaign. During the ad break (Letterman later replayed the incident) he wiped his glasses on the nearest thing he could find which happened to be the cardigan of the producer who was standing next to him tending something on Dave's desk. I thought "that's funny he obviously thinks that he's important enough to use someone's garment they are wearing to wipe his important glasses on" and this was unbeknownst to the producer who had her back to Bush at the time. But in light of this article it seems to be rude and contemtouos as well.
Posted by bombast @ 12/12/2002 06:25 AM EST
In response to Rob the Scrutinizer's comment: some of these views concur with what I saw of Bush on the Dave letterman show once during his election campaign. During the ad break (Letterman later replayed the incident) he wiped his glasses on the nearest thing he could find which happened to be the cardigan of the producer who was standing next to him tending something on Dave's desk. I thought "that's funny he obviously thinks that he's important enough to use someone's garment they are wearing to wipe his important glasses on" and this was unbeknownst to the producer who had her back to Bush at the time. But in light of this article it seems to be rude and contemptuous as well.
Posted by bombast @ 12/12/2002 06:28 AM EST
Think about this: Nostradamus named the three anti-christs. The first one is Napoleus Roy (Napoleon). The second one is Hister (Hitler). The third he named Mabus. Do you think this is Bush? Just wondering...
Posted by 2012 @ 12/12/2002 07:15 AM EST
First of all - all flock to www.dubyadubyadubya.com
at least a decent attempt to bring our united sincere appologies to the world for our "president" - emperor.
The sad reality is, that during the time this site has been up, people have been more and more afraid to speak out, and instead enshroud their comments in double meanings.
We are beginning to lose people.
This site is losing its purpose
Unless we stand up, we will soon be shut up.
www.dubyadubyadubya.com
Posted by Unproud American @ 12/12/2002 07:34 AM EST
After reading through many main stream media websites this morning and reading the latest press briefings that Ari Fleischer gives to White House correspondents, it struck me that 'everyone' is getting/has gotten used to saying the 'Homeland' when referring to America. Can't people just say 'America' anymore? When the idea of a 'Homeland Security Department' was first proposed, the use of the word 'Homeland' was an alien one to Americans and there was a fair amount of commentary of how odd it seemed. Now through repetition, we're apparently getting used to it and can't even call ourselves by our rightful name anymore. I dunno, just seems like another one of those 'weeds' that slowly and subtlely grows without hardly any notice, but eventually chokes off the 'good stuff' in the garden.
Posted by Suzette @ 12/12/2002 08:13 AM EST
ok heres that homeland security excerpt again...
(2) ACT OF TERRORISM.-(A) The term ''act of terrorism'' means any act that the Secretary deter- mines meets the requirements under subparagraph (B), as such requirements are further defined and specified by the Secretary.
(B) REQUIREMENTS.-An act meets the requirements of this subparagraph if the act-
(i) is unlawful;
(ii) causes harm to a person, property, or entity, in the United States, or in the case of a domestic United States air carrier or a United States-flag vessel (or a vessel based principally in the United States on which United States income tax is paid and whose insurance coverage is subject to regulation in the United States), in or outside the United States; and
(iii) uses or attempts to use instrumentalities, weapons or other methods designed or intended to cause mass destruction, injury or other loss to citizens or institutions of the United States.
terrorism is only terrorism if it is against the united states. Any violent crime is now defined as terrorism, whether someone is injured or not.
but reading it again, this thing could really cover any crime! read it,
"causes harm to a person, property, or entity"- the word or means that the term person doesnt have to be included, you dont have to hurt someone.
"or other loss"- this could easily include money
"or institutions of the united states"- this could include any fucking organization
all the tyrannical laws that were being set in place had that tiny little disclaimer that stated "for terrorists only" so most people were still pretty much safe even after the expansion of the terrorist definition in the USA PATRIOT act.
but this... we should have seen this coming. they surround us with these laws saying "just for terrorists, just for terrorists" and then, they get us by totally changing what the definition of a terorist act is!
you can get the whole 484 page document off of prisonplanet.com
all they need now is to clear out Posse Comitatus...
Posted by Ozgar Pugnus @ 12/12/2002 08:27 AM EST
Just when I think things can't get any crazier, the bush cartel always manages to pull a high priestess from the bottom of the deck.
I'm feeling more like I'm living in the movies "They Live" or "The Matrix", everyone seems to be asleep.
I was talking with a couple of acquaintances who visit my web site over the weekend and they both offers some theories, 'what if a black ops group stages a weapons of mass delusion attack on an american city. The populace would be clamoring for junior to nuk'em back to the stone ago
One also mentioned the "for now" voluntary smallpox vaccination program. What a fine way to get rid of any of us currently living with hiv, cancer, other immune problems or organ transplants.
It's all getting so scary, it's almost humorous in a Doctor Strangelove sort of way. Again love your site; definitely a lot of food for thought. Too bad most people are suffering from mental anorexia.
Posted by Bigboote @ 12/12/2002 09:49 AM EST
To webmaster, please forgive the muliple posts, my system hung up when I clicked post.
As an aside:
I have always and still do truly love my country and what it's "supposed" to stand for, and served proudly in the military, but it's what the political and industrial hijackers have done to my native soil and and our image to the rest of the passengers on the global omnibus that gets my blood pressure up.
Peace to all
Posted by Bigboote @ 12/12/2002 09:56 AM EST
The truth about America will set her free. The masses were fed with hate by their corrupt masters, so that the mass murder and theivery commited against the non europeans was considered to be for their own good, despite the words of Jesus their savior. The masses were taxed so that their rich masters could maximize their profits, the resposibility for cleaning up the masters mess was left to taxpayers.The masses were then forced to believe that your evolution as a human depended on how much you could accumulate. after the masses became greedy, racist and condescending their masters orchestrated the stock market crash and great depression and a pretend enemy. As the complaints mounted and their predatory position seemed threatened, the masters started a world war to distract their prey from the truth and to kill whoever knows the truth, the government serves the filthy rich politicians and buisness owners, the rest of us are slaves in bondage worried about losing our consumer goods ans savings. ARE YOU READY TO KILL TO SAVE YOUR STUFF. DOES YOUR GOD WANT YOU TO CONTINUE KILLING IN THE NAME OF THE ECONOMY. IDOLATRY AND ADULTERY ARE NOW NORMAL BEHAVIOR IN YOUR DYING COUNTRY, IS THIS THE REAL REASON WHY THE EUROPEANS CAME HERE? YOUR BIBLE HAS CLEAR WARNINGS ABOUT YOUR BEHAVIOR, YOU CANNOT AVOID YOUR DESTINATION BECAUSE YOU RULERS WILL NOT CHANGE THEIR DESTRUCTIVE DIRECTION AND YOU BELIEVE THEIR EMPTY THREATS. WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE EVENTUALLY SO CREATE AND ENJOY A PARTY
Posted by EARTHLING WHILE I'M HERE @ 12/12/2002 10:45 AM EST
Soaring Eagle:
Perhaps you should look up the definition of "schizo" ... and your post is the text-book example of "mindless." Bush and his cronies are fucking us all ... it doesn't matter if you voted for him or not. He and his team of thugs hold us ALL in utter contempt. The sooner you get your head out of your ass and start paying attention, the better you'll be able to deal with it.
Posted by Shawn Hines @ 12/12/2002 01:42 PM EST
So what did we learn about George W. Bush today?
Got any other goodies? Aside from the male "sexmate" story, of course.
- Well, first we learned where he was August 1st 1973:
Getting SUSPENDED from the National Guard [MORE]- Then we learned about another little incident:
It says in this court document [PDF] [HTML] on the Office of the County Clerk, Fort Bend County Texas site that Dubya has been accused legally of having sex with a minor, and then using his powers as President to harass her into committing suicide.
Posted by valis @ 12/12/2002 01:47 PM EST
Shawn Hines
Get use to this form of government. I'll take Bush policies over his predecessor any day.Before Clinton enterd office Chinese missles lacked proper guidance system (Lorell Corp.)now they do.Before Clinton entered office N. Korea's missle couldn't reach U.S West coast now they can.
Before Clinton entered office N. Korea didn't have nuclear weapons now they do. Bush is busy cleaning up that pinko commie lib's mess left over from Bill(anything for a buck)Clinton and his partner in crime Al(i'll take any money from China)Gore aka Sore Gore.
Posted by Soaring Eagle @ 12/12/2002 01:56 PM EST
Just wonder, why call him Dubya?
Posted by Noname @ 12/12/2002 03:19 PM EST
Soaring Eagle and Unknown soldier have been duped.
Bush is pissing on the constitution. He's making Bill Clinton seem like an Angel..
http://www.dubyadubyadubya.com/
Posted by Mech @ 12/12/2002 05:41 PM EST
If Bush is the antichrist what does that make the people who voted for him?
Posted by charlie @ 12/12/2002 05:57 PM EST
Remember that Chinese spy plane incident at the beginning of Shrub's term? Al Martin says that was actually a technology transfer. Notice how China's been suddenly producing their own hi-tech planes? That's because we (meaning Shrub and Co) gave them the technology. Truth is, both Republican and Democratic regimes have been arming China to the teeth for decades. Recently, Shrub traded Taiwan for Chinese support of the Iraq invasion. He told them "sure - take Taiwan, and we'll just take Iraq" I think the Chinese are just sitting back and waiting for these clowns to shit in their own nest, then look out, here comes China, super world power, armed by America.
Posted by fungusamongus @ 12/12/2002 06:10 PM EST
if only nature would take itz course and cheney's black fucking heart would cease pumping,that would be one down ,? to go.There are weaknesses in the white houses plans.The cocksure confidence about results;an illusion in my eyez.The americanz must keep up the fucking pressure and voraciously devour knowledge like this site has to offer and burn the brains of brainwashed puppets back into the fight to save a more real freedom here on earth.Those two bush quotes six months apart in the intro of voxnyc's website singlehandedly paint the picture of what we are dealing with .If only this could be seen as clearly demonstated in the mass populaces clouded eyez.
Posted by electrikeyez @ 12/12/2002 08:55 PM EST
You think it was George W who wrote the Homeland Security Bill? You think he contributed its major ideas? I don't think so...
Killing is never the answer. Get that much straight. Those of you who'd like to see George W offed and are comparing his administration to Clinton's are missing the point on at least two levels:
1. Violence begets violence - always - ALWAYS! Spiritual sages have been here on earth for millenia to teach us this simple fact.
2. George W. and Bill Clinton were "placed" (not voted) in office by the same people in high positions of power, one of whom happens to be newly in charge of the 9-11 investigation, (Dr. K), tho I do not believe for a moment that he is Mr. Big.
George W. IS NOT IN CHARGE, never was, no matter what the media reports. Blaming him is like blaming the mailman for slow mail.
Read:
*War On Freedom, by Naffeez Massadegg Ahmed
*Rule By Secrecy, by Jim Marrs
*The Truth Shall Set You Free, by David Icke (and other books by him)
*Noam Chomsky, who saw this trend coming in '93(?) when the WTC was hit the first time
*Stupid White Men, by Michael Moore
There are plenty of other books and articles out there, recent and antiquated,as many of you already know, that effectively document the history and activities of the so-called "Global Elite". Read them, and you'll find that these same activities have been going on for a long time with many of the same players crossing several years and generations. For example, some of the key players today in the Bush Administration (Cheny, Kissinger, George Bush Sr.) were also prominent in the Ford Administration.
Knowledge is power. Arm yourselves well, not with guns or hate, but with knowledge. As Bush might say, "don't misunderestimate the misblunders of your enemy".
You want Bush out? Then work to impeach him. Rally. Write. Let your representatives know. If they won't listen, write again, and then march to Washington and make them listen. Marching worked for Martin Luther King and his followers. March to Washington and camp out there until it gets done. Prepare for many curve balls and unknown factors, but if that is done the world will listen. There is a gathering planned against the war on Irag, I believe, I think in January. Let it be the largest gathering ever assembled in the U.S. Spread the word and do it. Don't rely on the internet, which may be chained and restricted a year from now. Rely on action, your own. How far are you willing to go...in a peaceful non violent manner? Who are you willing to talk to, and how far are you willing to travel to get the message through? Examine yourselves, seek the real truth, not the half-truths you hear in the media, (and even on the internet), and then determine your course of action. Rally at your homes with like minded people. Combine with other groups. Make a Plan. Find out who's organizing and join. But take action. Freedoms we take for granted are being sucked away.
"From my cold dead hand..." ought to refer to freedoms & rights, not guns...
Posted by 6stringdood @ 12/12/2002 09:32 PM EST
A Demagogue's Survival Guide
Always Keep the Slaves Rowing
by George F. Smith
Prologue
Control over others is what you're all about. Never forget it, never admit it.
Since you're in politics, you're seeking legally coercive control, which in this country must be developed gradually and kept properly disguised. Here's how you do it:
Part I - The Basics
(1) First and foremost, promote the creed of altruism--the placing of others above self. Attack as selfish any notion that people exist for their own well-being. If people hold altruism as a moral ideal, they become pliable. They can be taxed and shoved around for the sake of others.
Altruism is as old as human life and about as controversial as breathing. Most people think of it as compassion, which is why it's the most potent weapon in your arsenal.
(2) To win elections, get the support you need by expanding the power of government. This creates dependents who vote.
The lion's share of the cost of government is paid for by a minority of citizens. Ignore this group. Instead, develop programs that favor the have-nots. When the haves complain, accuse them of hogging the windfall life's lottery bequeathed them. Always have some popular underclass at hand--preferably children--to point to as beneficiaries of your programs. This will remove your critics from any considerations of decency.
(3) Ignore the Constitution, except in self-defense--in which case interpret it in a manner consistent with your goals.
(4) In promoting your programs, take advantage of the press and the country's education establishment. Since you're building power for the sake of the people--altruism at work--they'll gladly crusade for your cause and smear or ignore your critics.
(5) Always say that your government intrusions increase liberty. It's the familiar "slavery is freedom" ploy and part of the continuing struggle to replace antiquated concepts. See, for example, the New Dealers' claims that they were saving capitalism. For Independence Day, get pop culture stars to go on national TV and sing praises to liberty--the enlightened liberty of government control.
In this manner, your programs will become law.
Part II - Holding onto power
Now comes your biggest challenge--managing the chaos you create.
(1) Golden Rule: Never blame your laws. See, for example, the California electricity crisis of 2001. Pass more laws to fix things.
(2) Just as you have automatic allies in the media and education, so you have an automatic scapegoat: business. When something goes wrong, make business pay.
Businesses work for their own profit, a practice altruism condemns. Though corporate CEOs try to persuade us of their altruistic motives by saying they work for their stockholders, or by distributing PR material replete with smiling minorities, they fool no one. Any profit-making entity is unholy, because all profit is flesh torn from the bodies of innocents. Seizing profits for collective purposes is crucial to your survival and will boost your moral reputation. Use the money to buy votes.
When it's unwise to attack business directly, assail the politicians that business supports. This way, you avoid embarrassing the many corporations that give to statist causes out of fear.
(3) Remember, too, that since most of your programs target specific groups, you always have class cards to play. Take advantage of each group's loudmouths, who are eager to castigate all opposition.
(4) In the event you achieve short-run success, promote it with taxpayer dollars and extol the virtue of government action. When the short-run collapses, blame business and demand more power and money to fix it.
(5) In the freer days of our history, it was necessary to manufacture crises. With today's level of government power, normal policies are sufficient. If you need a crisis, one will soon be forthcoming.
(6) As a matter of style, always be quick with a smile.
Though you're at least a multimillionaire, show the voters you're a regular guy at heart. When necessary, eat at fast food joints, go to church, play touch football with your family, take part in celebrity fundraisers--always, of course, with the media close by.
Answer all questions with a direct answer, except those not previously arranged. And don't merely affirm or deny--categorically affirm, unequivocally deny.
One final note
Voters have the habit of holding politicians responsible for sagging economies. Though this is a natural consequence of intervention, almost no one sees it that way. Pundits will blame you for bad meddling, not for meddling per se. The trick is to destroy capitalism while keeping the slaves rowing. If you don't do it, your opponent will.
The solution here is to intensify your assault on the criminal conduct of the private sector while proposing new legislation, being careful to say it's for the good of the country or some unimpeachable subset thereof. In a crisis, the people expect you to "do something," which for you means stepping up government action.
Posted by i agree with jason @ 12/12/2002 10:31 PM EST
BREAKING: Woman files lawsuit against President
by LeaAnne Klentzman of the Fort Bend Southwest Star
Margie Schoedinger of Missouri City, Texas has filed a lawsuit against George W. Bush in Fort Bend County Court. In her suit she is alleging "race based harassment and individual sex crimes committed against her and her husband." The suit lists numerous offenses and asks for actual damages, punitive damages and judgments against George W. Bush.Additional Documentation: [PDF] [HTML]In her suit, among the many allegations, she has stated, "On or about, October 26, 2000, an attempt was made to abduct Plaintiff (Schoedinger) by three unknown assailants....
...Furthermore she states, "Throughout this conversation, she learned that there was no time that the Defendant (Bush) ever stopped watching Plaintiff’, nor did he stop having sex with Plaintiff. The sole concern of the Defendant and his representatives was whether Plaintiff could actually recall whether Plaintiff could actually recall, the individual sex crimes committed against Plaintiff and Plaintiff’s husband, utilizing drugs.
Section VII of the lawsuit states; "Whether or not Plaintiff’s husband was raped remains in question, as Plaintiff was drugged after she was raped and her husband was drugged before her rape. Plaintiff can only state that these men purported to be FBI agents raping her for the purpose of covering for how many times they had drugged her and allowed the Defendant to rape her in the same manner."
Posted by valis @ 12/13/2002 01:38 AM EST
Boycott America.
Everyone boycott America.
No more trade.
No more oil.
No more nothing.
No buy, no sell.
Education in action.
Liebigs Law of the minimum.
No trade. Just like it will be when the oil is all gone, max 40 years.
Chester.
Posted by Chester @ 12/13/2002 01:46 AM EST
'
so looks like jeb bush is desposing of all the evidence, and there was plenty, around the Venice flight school were two of the "terrorist" pilots were trained to fly there...
I.N.S. Deporting Ruddie Dekkers
by Daniel Hopsiker
"The I.N.S. is acting to place the prime suspect in a wider-ranging 9/11 conspiracy investigation out of the reach of the Independent Investigation."
December 4—world exclusive
by Daniel Hopsicker
copyright MadCowMorningNews
may not be reprinted without permission
At the instigation of Bush Administration officials the Immigration and Naturalization Service is preparing to deport the man whose Venice, FL. flight school served as a magnet for Mohamed Atta's terrorist cadre, effectively placing him beyond the reach of the upcoming 9/11 investigation, the MadCowMorningNews has learned.
Rudi Dekkers, who began "marching Arabs across the tarmac" soon after his arrival in 1999 at Huffman Aviation, has run afoul of the Immigration and Naturalization Service for a variety of immigration violations, sources state, including being in the U.S. illegally.
"Wally (Hilliard) and Rudi formed a fictitious company to keep Rudi in the U.S.," explained one aviation observer in Naples. "But the I.N.S. has known about that for years. Something else is going on."
Aviation sources suggest the deportation move by the I.N.S.— widely-accused of having failed to do anything while terrorists roamed freely across U.S. borders— is less a sign of any renewed vigor at a beleaguered federal agency than an Administration effort to curtail the 9/11 investigation by placing Dekkers beyond the reach of questioning.
For the record, a spokesperson speaking for the I.N.S Commissioner would only say, "We do not comment on individuals being removed from this country."
The (acting) I.N.S. Commissioner is Michael Garcia, who headed the terrorism investigation for INS following the 1993 World Trade Center attack.
"What happened to the flight school records? Ask Jeb."
Whatever secrets Dekkers may possess about the terrorists, records from his flight school were deemed sensitive enough to have merited being escorted back to Washington by Florida Governor Jeb Bush aboard a C-130 cargo plane, which left Sarasota less than 24 hours after the September 11 attack.
Many in the South West Florida aviation community have begun to voice the suspicion that ‘Magic Dutch Boy’ Dekkers played a still-unexplained role in the story of the terrorist conspiracy’s time in Florida.
"The I.N.S. is acting to place the prime suspect in a wider-ranging 9/11 conspiracy investigation out of the reach of the Independent Investigation," said one skeptical Naples aviation executive.
"They're getting Rudi out of town fast. And Wally Hilliard is heading out the door right behind him."
This statement is bolstered by records of recent Florida property transactions, which reveal that Rudi Dekkers has, indeed, been liquidating assets including airplanes and a condominium.
'Cashing out' at Huffman Aviation
Now the MadCowMorningNews has learned that 70-year old Wallace J. Hilliard of Naples, FL., multi-millionaire businessman and self-styled Mormon Bishop, is also selling out, peddling Huffman Aviation, the infamous "terror flight school" bought just three years ago.
As if the Venice Airport needed any more "Magic Dutch Boys," the potential buyers represent what one source close to the sale characterized as "two Dutch investors."
As Rudi Dekkers prepares to (hopefully-for-him) slip from sight, many things about him remain mysterious. The biggest unanswered question involves how Dekkers, running a flight school which trained both pilots who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center Towers, and a known fugitive from justice in Holland, managed to end up being invited to testify before the Congress of the United States of America... instead of behind bars.
Why did the FBI and the national media accept at face value (and so eagerly) Dekker's claims to being an innocent victimized businessman? Was Rudi, even in the immediate aftermath of September 11, somehow being protected?
"When the FBI came down the day after Sept. 11, it totally amazed me that they took everything Rudi said as the truth," said Sue DeAngelis, Dekkers’ former office manager, who let FBI agents in at Huffman Aviation when they arrived in the middle of the night.
Perhaps the answer is that Dekkers was already well-known in certain circles. A startling number of federal agencies, the MadCowMorningNews has learned exclusively, have files on Dekker's going back a decade.
"One of the usual suspects."
"I remember when DEA, Customs, everyone was after him over here," stated one aviation observer in Naples, FL. "Some money got seized because of his supposed illegal activities."
"Everything that guy ever did—from a to z—was illegal," said another.
Dekkers, of course, is one of the two Dutch nationals whose curious and nearly-simultaneous appearance as flight school owners several years ago at the Venice Airport was followed by an influx of hundreds of Arab and German student pilots.
The other "Magic Dutch Boy" is equally mysterious, according to some. "Arne Kruithof sat across from my desk and told me he had trained at a U.S. military installation in South East Missouri," stated one aviation executive in Venice.
"What is a Dutch national doing training at a secure U.S. military facility?"
If Mohamed Atta had local logistical assistance while in this country, Rudi Dekkers is the right place to start looking.
In the aftermath of 9/11, Dekkers defended having trained anyone who walked up to his counter.
"I don't need anything from you, just a check to start flying," he insisted.
He even likened flying lessons to shopping for groceries...
"We're just a business," Dekkers said.
The Man Who Went on Larry King Unmasked
Just what kind of business was Dekkers running while terrorists practiced touch and go's on the runways at the Venice Airport?
Some answers can be gleaned in court documents filed at the Sarasota County Courthouse in a sexual harassment lawsuit by a former 18-year old female against Dekkers, her overweight and middle-aged former boss.
Dekkers settled the suit, agreeing to pay damages. When he later stopped making payments, the young woman's attorney filed a motion to enforce the settlement agreement, and the sealed complaint became public information for the first time.
It includes contemporaneous notes taken by the then-18 year old girl, who was jotting down Dekkers statements and behavior towards her at the same time Mohamed Atta and his terrorist cadre attended the school.
"As long as I worked at Huffman Aviation I have been subjected to sexual harassment by Rudi Dekkers," the girl states.
"Can I bite into you?" Dekkers asked her on one occasion, her notes state. Told that that was 'sick,' Dekkers' replied, "I know, I just can't help it. Look at you: your hair, your face, your ass...you're a hot girl!"
Another time Dekkers' asked his young female employee, barely out of high school, according to her contemporaneous notes, if he could "buy her."
"Buy me what?" she responds.
"You know, just buy you. It should be like in the olden days. I should be able to just buy you," Dekkers replied.
In the same conversation, according to her notes, the boorish Dekkers wondered aloud what the reaction would be if someone walked into his office while he was tucking his shirt (and ample girth) back into his pants.
"Wouldn't that be funny if somebody walked in now as I'm putting my shirt away? They would think I was fucking you!"
"All publicity is good publicity."
On another occasion, the girls notes state, Dekker's asked her, "Did you see that Russian girl I had in here? I couldn't hire her, because she's Russian. But I did tell her I had a job for her."
"In the pilot shop?" the young employee asks.
"No, I told her she could give me a blow job," Dekkers says.
Dekkers, the girl wrote, told her, "You're beautiful when you're mad." To which she replied, "You have no right touching my pants."
The young woman's allegations of a pattern of harassment by Dekkers was confirmed by Amanda Keller, Mohamed Atta's former live-in girlfriend, who spent time waiting in the flight school lounge while Atta trained.
"Rudi Dekkers... He’s a total pervert," she stated in an exclusive three hour interview videotaped at a secret location. "A nasty, nasty man."
"He said to me one time, 'What would it take for me to have a piece of you?' I told him I didn't know what he was talking about. He said, 'Oh come on you know what I mean.'
"So I looked at him and said: 'You’re lucky I don’t hit you.'
"And his secretary stood up and applauded. He told her to 'sit down and shut up.'"
Like many who worked with Dekker's, his former office manager Sue DeAngelis has a poor opinion of his character.
"You know why he told me he did so many TV interviews after the attack? Because, he said, it was the best free advertising we would ever get."
The FBI has stated that they have found no evidence that the terrorists received any outside help while in this country.
Maybe they should look again.
What links are there between Atta's Hamburg cadre and its sponsors and the flight schools in Venice, Florida?
We may never know.
Posted by loner @ 12/13/2002 06:55 AM EST
Restore 100% constitutional law.(including gun ownership..sorry)
Remove all branches of government and start from scratch with uninfluenced, new minds.Not old money.
Hydrogen/solar/wind/thermal powered economy..like iceland is now putting in place.
Abolish the federal reserve and IRS and return to the gold standard.
Amnesty on all loans and credit with interest due to the unconstitutional nature of the federal reserve...everyone returns to zero.
Repeal of NAFTA/GATT/FTAA/WTO which dissolve U.S. national sovereignty.
Posted by Mech @ 12/13/2002 07:03 AM EST
WWO CARES WHAT BUSH SAID! WE ALL KNOW HES A CUNNING SOCIOPATH, WE ALL KNOW WE LIVE IN A WORLD OF SHIT....THE SHIP IS SINKING AND THERE ARE NO LIFEBOATS...NONE, SUCK IT UP!
Posted by Vick @ 12/13/2002 09:35 AM EST
Vick: NO!
Don't give up yet. Fight! Spread the word. Be patient.
Support local communities in environmental matters; engage!
Best Wishes.
Posted by flow @ 12/13/2002 09:52 AM EST
Vox,
Would you consider adding this site to your list of links? If you want to overcome the enemies of truth, you must first understand their tactics and methods. (Note - the 'Spin of the Day' section is particularly good, imho).
Peace
Posted by Suzette @ 12/13/2002 10:29 AM EST
IM A FILMMAKER LOOKING TO WRITE COMPELLING STORIES FOR SHORT FILM, DOCUMENTARIES- IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO CONTRIBUTE, DONT HESITATE TO CONTYACT ME. Fight! Spread the word!...OK!
Posted by Vick @ 12/13/2002 10:33 AM EST
I think George W,should be the first one to get a smallpox shot. After all he is the leader.
Posted by wierd scenes in the gold mine @ 12/13/2002 10:58 AM EST
Voxfux is part of the machine the way he censors. He is no better than Bush.Give this foolio any power see how he would abuse it.Voxfux let all message stay posted let the arean of ideas thrive unless your a coward.
Posted by Soaring Eagle @ 12/13/2002 12:27 PM EST
hey vick, what kind of documentaries did you have in mind? let me know how to contact you by posting another message in here. surely with the new filmmaking software out there it must not be too difficult to make the kind of documentaries they show on all the educational channels... only more honest!
Heath
Posted by heath @ 12/13/2002 01:56 PM EST
we should all be more excited with the ease of which filmmaking has now evolved. our television culture responds to nothing so well as video w/ sound. its how ABCNNBCBS warp so many minds so effectively!
Posted by heath @ 12/13/2002 02:03 PM EST
Documentaries and short films that expose the NWO...uffr@yahoo.com
Posted by Vick @ 12/13/2002 03:35 PM EST
check out this show
http://globalfreepress.com/sgtv/
Posted by Wat Tyler @ 12/13/2002 06:29 PM EST
amen "6stringdood" its time to make a big peaceful move. i suspect millions of us have been waiting a very long time to stand and be counted. we must now become one and walk on the white house. we are all one we are the same and its time to sing about it..... keep hope
Posted by love against the machine @ 12/13/2002 10:03 PM EST
We are just a few decades away from calling "Homeland" Security "The Fatherland" Security.
The Bushes are Fascists. They want to produce a police state and begin a program of eugenics to get rid of "undesireables." The plan is in place and currently on its way to fruition. Each "law" to do this begats another one and they reproduce exponentionally. Acceleration of this plan will come faster and faster until it is too late.
If you look at a list of laws (by date) that the Nazi's in Germany enacted after Hitler came to power--they were enacted first a month at time, then a week at a time, then almost daily--new laws against Jews, Gypsies, the old, the homeless, the mentally ill, then people of other nationalities--Poles, Czechs, Slavs, Russians, etc. No one could counteract the on-slaught. It was too late for anyone opposed to the Corporate-Fascist-Racist State. That is happening here. Slowly at first, but it will increase in intensity and then you will have no where to run--except out into the street where you will be shot to death.
Posted by The Prophet @ 12/13/2002 10:40 PM EST
Walt Withman, I agree 100% This guy is just like his father...FULL OF SHIT !!!
Posted by Mamba @ 12/14/2002 02:18 AM EST
HEIR TO THE HOLOCAUST
How the Bush family wealth is linked to the Holocaust
by Toby Rogers
While the Enron scandal currently unfolds, another Bush family business scandal lurks beneath the shadows of history that may dwarf it.
On April 19, 2001, President George W. Bush spent some of Holocaust Remembrance Day in the Capital Rotunda with holocaust survivors, allied veterans, and their families. In a ceremony that included Jewish prayers and songs sung by holocaust victims in the camps, Benjamin Meed, a survivor of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, movingly described to the gathering what he experienced on April 19, 1943.
"I stood outside a Catholic church, which faced the ghetto," Mr. Meed said, "a young Jewish boy posing as a gentile. As I watched the ghetto being bombarded by the German artillery, I could see many of the Jews of my community jumping out of windows of burning buildings. I stood long and mute."
The survivor concluded his reminiscence saying, "We tremble to think what could happen if we allow a new generation to arise ignorant of the tragedy which is still shaping the future."
President Bush, appearing almost uncomfortable, read a statement that said that humanity was "bound by conscience to remember what happened" and that "the record has been kept and preserved." The record, Mr. Bush stated, was that one of the worst acts of genocide in human history "came not from crude and uneducated men, but from men who regarded themselves as cultured and well schooled, modern men, forward looking. Their crime showed the world that evil can slip in and blend in amid the most civilized surroundings. In the end only conscience can stop it."
But while President Bush publicly embraced the community of holocaust survivors in Washington last spring, he and his family have been keeping a secret from them for over 50 years about Prescott Bush, the president's grandfather. According to classified documents from Dutch intelligence and US government archives, President George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush made considerable profits off Auschwitz slave labor. In fact, President Bush himself is an heir to these profits from the holocaust which were placed in a blind trust in 1980 by his father, former president George Herbert Walker Bush.
Throughout the Bush family's decades of public life, the American press has gone out of its way to overlook one historical fact – that through Union Banking Corporation (UBC), Prescott Bush, and his father-in-law, George Herbert Walker, along with German industrialist Fritz Thyssen, financed Adolf Hitler before and during World War II. It was first reported in 1994 by John Loftus and Mark Aarons in The Secret War Against the Jews: How Western Espionage Betrayed the Jewish People.
The US government had known that many American companies were aiding Hitler, like Standard Oil, General Motors and Chase Bank, all of which was sanctioned after Pearl Harbor. But as The New York Times reporter Charles Higham later discovered, and published in his 1983 groundbreaking book, Trading With The Enemy; The Nazi American Money Plot 1933-1949, "the government smothered everything during and even after the war." Why?
According to Higham, the US government believed "a public scandal ... would have drastically affected public morale, caused widespread strikes and perhaps provoked mutinies in the armed services." Higham claims the government thought "their trial and imprisonment would have made it impossible for the corporate boards to help the American war effort."
However, Prescott Bush's banks were not just financing Hitler as previously reported. In fact, there was a distinct business link much deeper than Mr. Higham or Mr. Loftus knew at the time their books were published.
A classified Dutch intelligence file which was leaked by a courageous Dutch intelligence officer, along with newly surfaced information from U.S. government archives, "confirms absolutely," John Loftus says, the direct links between Bush, Thyssen and genocide profits from Auschwitz.
The business connections between Prescott Bush and Fritz Thyssen were more direct than what has been previously written. This new information reveals how Prescott Bush and UBC, which he managed directly, profited from the Holocaust. A case can be made that the inheritors of the Prescott Bush estate could be sued by survivors of the Holocaust and slave labor communities. To understand the complete picture of how Prescott Bush profited from the Holocaust, it is necessary to return to the year 1916, where it all began.
Post World War I: Thyssen Empire On The Ropes
By 1916, August Thyssen could see the writing on the wall. The "Great War" was spinning out of control, grinding away at Germany's resources and economy. The government was broke and his company, Thyssen & Co., with 50,000 German workers and annual production of 1,000,000 tons of steel and iron, was buckling under the war's pressure. As the main supplier of the German military, August Thyssen knew Germany would be defeated once the US entered the war.
At 74, "King" August Thyssen knew he was also running out of time. His first born "prince" Friedrich (Fritz) Thyssen, had been groomed at the finest technical business schools in Europe and was destined to inherit his father's estimated $100,000,000 fortune and an industrial empire located at Muehhlheim on the Ruhr.
In addition to Fritz, plans were also made for the second son Heinrich. At the outbreak of the war, Heinrich Thyssen discreetly changed his citizenship from German to Hungarian and married the Hungarian aristocrat Baroness Margrit Bornemisza de Kaszon. Soon Heinrich Thyssen switched his name to Baron Thyssen Bornemisza de Kaszon.
Near the end of World War I, August Thyssen opened the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart in Rotterdam. The neutral Holland was the perfect location outside of Germany to launder assets from the August Thyssen Bank in Berlin when the financial demands of the Allied forces surfaced. But the war ended much sooner than even Thyssen calculated and what developed caught the "Rockefeller of the Ruhr" off guard.
On November 10, 1918, German socialists took over Berlin. The following morning at 5 a.m., what was left of Germany surrendered to the Allies, officially ending World War I. "At the time of the Armistice and the signing of the Treaty of Versailles, my Father and I were deeply saddened by the spectacle of Germany's abject humiliation," Thyssen recalled later in his autobiography, I Paid Hitler.
After the war, chaos descended on Germany as food ran short. Winter was looming over a starving nation when on Dec. 7, 1918, the socialist Spartacists League came knocking on the Thyssen Villa with armed militia. August and Fritz were arrested and dragged from jail to jail across Germany for four days. Along the way, they were lined up in staged executions designed to terrorize them.
It worked. When released, the two Thyssens were horrified at the new political climate in their beloved Germany. They could not accept that Germany was responsible for its own demise. All Germany's problems, the Thyssens felt, "have almost always been due to foreigners." It was the Jews, he and many others believed, who were secretly behind the socialist movement across the globe.
Meanwhile Fritz's younger brother Baron Thyssen Bornemisza de Kaszon moved to Rotterdam and became the principal owner of the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart. All the Thyssens needed now was an American branch.
1920s: The Business Ties That Bind
Railroad baron E.H. Harriman's son Averell wanted nothing to do with railroads, so his father gave him an investment firm, W.A. Harriman & Company in New York City. E.H. hired the most qualified person in the country to run the operation, George Herbert Walker. Averell hired his little brother Edward Roland "Bunny" Harriman as a vice president.
By 1920, George Herbert Walker had already built a fortune in Missouri. Walker, a charismatic former heavyweight boxing champion, was a human pit bull. He lived life to the fullest, owning mansions around the east coast and one of the most extravagant apartments in Manhattan. His hobbies were golf, hunting, drinking scotch and beating his sons to a pulp. Elsie Walker, one of Walker's grandchildren described Walker as a "tough old bastard" whose children had no love "for their father." He was also a religious bigot who hated Catholics, although his parents raised him to be one. According to other sources, he also did not like Jews.
In 1922, Averell Harriman traveled to Germany to set up a W.A. Harriman & Co. branch in Berlin. The Berlin branch was also run by Walker. While in Germany, he met with the Thyssen family for the first time. Harriman agreed to help the Thyssens with their plan for an American bank.
The following year, a wounded Germany was growing sicker. The government had no solution and froze while Germany rotted from within. With widespread strikes and production at a near standstill, Fritz Thyssen later recalled, "We were at the worst time of the inflation. In Berlin the government was in distress. It was ruined financially. Authority was crumbling. In Saxony a communist government had been formed and the Red terror, organized by Max Hoelz, reigned through the countryside. The German Reich ... was now about to crumble."
In October, 1923, an emotionally desperate Fritz Thyssen went to visit one of his and Germany's great military heroes, General Erich Ludendorff. During the 1918 socialist rule in Berlin, Ludendorff organized a military resistance against the socialists and the industrialists were in great debt to him. When Thyssen met with Ludendorff, they discussed Germany's economic collapse. Thyssen was apocalyptic, fearing the worst was yet to come. Ludendorff disagreed. "There is but one hope," Ludendorff said, "Adolph Hitler and the National Socialist party." Ludendorff respected Hitler immensely. "He is the only man who has any political sense." Ludendorff encouraged Thyssen to join the Nazi movement. "Go listen to him one day" he said to Thyssen.
Thyssen followed General Ludendorff's advice and went to a number of meetings to hear Hitler speak. He became mesmerized by Hitler. "I realized his orator gifts and his ability to lead the masses. What impressed me most however was the order that reigned over his meetings, the almost military discipline of his followers."
Thyssen arranged to meet privately with Hitler and Ludendorff in Munich. Hitler told Thyssen the Nazi movement was in financial trouble, it was not growing fast enough and was nationally irrelevant. Hitler needed as much money as possible to fight off the Communists/Jewish conspiracy against Europe. Hitler envisioned a fascist German monarchy with a nonunion, antilock national work force.
Thyssen was overjoyed with the Nazi platform. He gave Hitler and Ludendorff 100,000 gold marks ($25,000) for the infant Nazi party. Others in the steel and coal industries soon followed Thyssen's lead, although none came close to matching him. Many business leaders in Germany supported Hitler's secret union-hating agenda. However, some donated because they feared they would be left out in the cold if he actually ever seized power.
Most industry leaders gave up on Hitler after his failed coup in 1923. While Hitler spent a brief time in jail, the Thyssens, through the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart, opened the Union Banking Corporation in 1924.
Union Banking Corporation
Early in 1924, Hendrick J. Kouwenhoven, the managing director of Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart, traveled to New York to meet with Walker and the Harriman brothers. Together, they established The Union Banking Corporation. The UBC's headquarters was located at the same 39 Broadway address as Harriman & Co.
As the German economy recovered through the mid to late ‘20s, Walker and Harriman's firm sold over $50,000,000 worth of German bonds to American investors, who profited enormously from the economic boom in Germany. In 1926, August Thyssen died at the age of 84. Fritz was now in control of one of the largest industrial families in Europe. He quickly created the United Steel Works (USW), the biggest industrial conglomerate in German history. Thyssen hired Albert Volger, one of the Ruhr's most influential industrial directors, as director General of USW.
Thyssen also brought Fredich Flick, another German family juggernaut, on board. Flick owned coal and steel industries throughout Germany and Poland and desperately wanted to invest into the Thyssen empire. One of the primary motivations for the Thyssen/Flick massive steel and coal merger was suppressing the new labor and socialist movements.
That year in New York, George Walker decided to give his new son in law, Prescott Bush, a big break. Walker made Bush a vice president of Harriman & Co. Prescott's new office employed many of his classmates from his Yale class of 1917, including Roland Harriman and Knight Woolley. The three had been close friends at Yale and were all members of Skull and Bones, the mysterious on-campus secret society. Despite the upbeat fraternity atmosphere at Harriman & Co., it was also a place of hard work, and no one worked harder than Prescott Bush.
In fact, Walker hired Bush to help him supervise the new Thyssen/Flick United Steel Works. One section of the USW empire was the Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation and the Upper Silesian Coal and Steel Company located in the Silesian section of Poland. Thyssen and Flick paid Bush and Walker generously, but it was worth every dime. Their new business arrangement pleased them all financially, and the collective talents of all four men and their rapid success astonished the business world.
In the meantime Hitler and the Nazi party were broke. Since the German economic recovery, members and donations had dried up, leaving the Nazi movement withering on the vine. In 1927, Hitler was desperate for cash; his party was slipping into debt. Hitler told his private secretary Rudolf Hess to shake down wealthy coal tycoon and Nazi sympathizer Emil Kirdorf. Kirdorf paid off Hitler's debt that year but the following year, he too had no money left to contribute.
In 1928, Hitler had his eyes on the enormous Barlow Palace located in Briennerstrasse, the most aristocratic section of Munich. Hitler wanted to convert the palace into the Nazi national headquarters and change its name to the Brown House but it was out of his price range. Hitler told Hess to contact Thyssen. After hearing the Hess appeal, Thyssen felt it was time to give Hitler a second chance. Through the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart, Thyssen said he "placed Hess in possession of the required funds" to purchase and redesign the Palace. Thyssen later said the amount was about 250,000 marks but leading Nazis later claimed that just the re-molding cost over 800,000 marks (equivalent to $2 million today).
Regardless of the cost, Hitler and Thyssen became close friends after the purchase of the Brown House. At the time, neither knew how influential that house was to become the following year when, in 1929, the great depression spread around the world. With the German economic recovery up in flames, Hitler knew there was going to be a line out the door of industrialists waiting to give him cash.
1930s: Hitler Rises – Thyssen/Bush Cash In
Thyssen would later try to claim that his weekends with Hitler and Hess at his Rhineland castles were not personal but strictly business and that he did not approve of most of Hitler's ideas, but the well-known journalist R.G Waldeck, who spent time with Thyssen at a spa in the Black Forest, remembered quite differently. Waldeck said when he and Thyssen would walk through the cool Black Forest in 1929-30, Thyssen would tell Waldeck that he believed in Hitler. He spoke of Hitler "with warmth" and said the Nazis were "new men" that would make Germany strong again. With the depression bleeding Europe, Thyssen's financial support made Hitler's rise to power almost inevitable.
The great depression also rocked Harriman & Co. The following year, Harriman & Co. merged with the London firm Brown/Shipley. Brown/Shipley kept its name, but Harriman & Co. changed its name to Brown Brothers, Harriman. The new firm moved to 59 Wall St. while UBC stayed at 39 Broadway. Averell Harriman and Prescott Bush reestablished a holding company called The Harriman 15 Corporation. One of the companies Harriman had held stock in was the Consolidated Silesian Steel Company. Two thirds of the company was owned by Friedrich Flick. The rest was owned by Harriman.
In December 1931, Fritz Thyssen officially joined the Nazi party. When Thyssen joined the movement, the Nazi party was gaining critical mass around Germany. The charismatic speeches and persona of Hitler, the depression and the Thyssen's Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart all contributed to Hitler's sudden rise in popularity with the German people.
In September 1932, Thyssen invited a group of elite German industrial tycoons to his castle to meet with Hitler. They spent hours questioning Hitler, who answered all their questions with the'"utmost satisfaction," Thyssen remembered. The money poured in from the industrial circles mostly due to Hitler's "monarchistic attitude" towards labor and issues of class.
But by November, German voters grew weary of Hitler's antidemocratic tendencies and turned to the Communist party, which gained the most seats in the fall election. The Nazis lost a sweeping 35 seats in the Reichstag, but since the Nazis were already secretly negotiating a power sharing alliance with Hindenberg that would ultimately lead to Hitler declaring himself dictator, the outcry of German voters was politically insignificant.
By 1934, Hindenberg was dead and Hitler completely controlled Germany. In March, Hitler announced his plans for a vast new highway system. He wanted to connect the entire Reich with an unprecedented wide road design, especially around major ports. Hitler wanted to bring down unemployment but, more importantly, needed the new roads for speedy military maneuvers.
Hitler also wanted to seriously upgrade Germany's military machine. Hitler ordered a'"rebirth of the German army" and contracted Thyssen and United Steel Works for the overhaul. Thyssen's steel empire was the cold steel heart of the new Nazi war machine that led the way to World War II, killing millions across Europe.
Thyssen's and Flick's profits soared into the hundreds of millions in 1934 and the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart and UBC in New York were overflowing with money. Prescott Bush became managing director of UBC and handled the day-to-day operations of the new German economic plan. Bush's shares in UBC peaked with Hitler's new German order. But while production rose, cronyism did as well.
On March 19, 1934, Prescott Bush handed Averell Harriman a copy of that day's New York Times. The Polish government was applying to take over Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation and Upper Silesian Coal and Steel Company from'"German and American interests" because of rampant "mismanagement, excessive borrowing, fictitious bookkeeping and gambling in securities." The Polish government required the owners of the company, which accounted for over 45% of Poland's steel production, to pay at least its full share of back taxes. Bush and Harriman would eventually hire attorney John Foster Dulles to help cover up any improprieties that might arise under investigative scrutiny.
Hitler's invasion of Poland in 1939 ended the debate about Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation and Upper Silesian Coal and Steel Company. The Nazis knocked the Polish Government off Thyssen, Flick and Harriman's steel company and were planning to replace the paid workers. Originally Hitler promised Stalin they would share Poland and use Soviet prisoners as slaves in Polish factories. Hitler's promise never actually materialized and he eventually invaded Russia.
1940s: Business As Usual
Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation was located near the Polish town of Oswiecim, one of Poland's richest mineral regions. That was where Hitler set up the Auschwitz concentration camp. When the plan to work Soviet prisoners fell through, the Nazis transferred Jews, communists, gypsies and other minority populations to the camp. The prisoners of Auschwitz who were able to work were shipped to 30 different companies. One of the companies was the vast Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation.
"Nobody's made the connection before between Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation, Auschwitz and Prescott Bush," John Loftus told Clamor.
"That was the reason why Auschwitz was built there. The coal deposits could be processed into either coal or additives for aviation gasoline."
Even though Thyssen and Flick's Consolidated Steel was in their possession, Hitler's invasions across Europe spooked them, bringing back memories of World War I. Thyssen and Flick sold Consolidated Steel to UBC. Under the complete control of Harriman and management of Bush, the company became Silesian American Corporation which became part of UBC and Harriman's portfolio of 15 corporations. Thyssen quickly moved to Switzerland and later France to hide from the terror about to be unleashed by the Nazi war machine he had helped build.
A portion of the slave labor force in Poland was "managed by Prescott Bush," according to a Dutch intelligence agent. In 1941, slave labor had become the lifeblood of the Nazi war machine. The resources of Poland's rich steel and coal field played an essential part in Hitler's invasion of Europe.
According to Higham, Hitler and the Fraternity of American businessmen "not only sought a continuing alliance of interests for the duration of World War II, but supported the idea of a negotiated peace with Germany that would bar any reorganization of Europe along liberal lines. It would leave as its residue a police state that would place the Fraternity in postwar possession of financial, industrial, and political autonomy."
Six days after Pearl Harbor and the US declaration of war at the end of 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau and US Attorney General Francis Biddle signed the Trading With the Enemy Act, which banned any business interests with US enemies of war. Prescott Bush continued with business as usual, aiding the Nazi invasion of Europe and supplying resources for weaponry that would eventually be turned on American solders in combat against Germany.
On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government had had enough of Prescott Bush and his Nazi business arrangements with Thyssen. Over the summer, The New York Tribune had exposed Bush and Thyssen, whom the Tribune dubbed "Hitler's Angel." When the US government saw UBC's books, they found out that Bush's bank and its shareholders "are held for the benefit of ... members of the Thyssen family, [and] is property of nationals ... of a designated enemy country." The list of seven UBC share holders was:
E. Roland Harriman – 3991 shares
Cornelis Lievense – 4 shares
Harold D.Pennington – 1 share
Ray Morris–– 1 share
Prescott S. Bush – 1 share
H.J. Kouwenhoven – 1 share
Johann G. Groeninger – 1 share.
The UBC books also revealed the myriad of money and holding companies funneled from the Thyssens and the government realized UBC was just the tip of the iceberg. On November 17, 1942, The US government also took over the Silesian American Corporation, but did not prosecute Bush for the reasons Higham noted earlier. The companies were allowed to operate within the Government Alien Property custodian office with a catch – no aiding the Nazis. In 1943, while still owning his stock, Prescott Bush resigned from UBC and even helped raise money for dozens of war-related causes as chairman of the National War Fund.
After the war, the Dutch government began investigating the whereabouts of some jewelry of the Dutch royal family that was stolen by the Nazis. They started looking into books of the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart. When they discovered the transaction papers of the Silesian American Corporation, they began asking the bank manager H.J. Kounhoven a lot of questions. Kouwenhoven was shocked at the discovery and soon traveled to New York to inform Prescott Bush. According to Dutch intelligence, Kouwenhoven met with Prescott soon after Christmas, 1947. Two weeks later, Kouwenhoven apparently died of a heart attack.
1950s: Bush Sells UBC Stock
By 1948, Fritz Thyssen's life was in ruins. After being jailed by the Nazis, he was jailed by the Allies and interrogated extensively, but not completely, by US investigators. Thyssen and Flick were ordered to pay reparations and served time in prison for their atrocious crimes against humanity.
On February 8, 1951, Fritz Thyssen died bitterly in Argentina at the age of 78. Thyssen was angry at the way he was treated by Europe after the war and how history would remember him as Hitler's most important and prominent financier.
When Thyssen died, the Alien Property Custodian released the assets of the Union Banking Corporation to Brown Brothers Harriman. The remaining stockholders cashed in their stocks and quietly liquidated the rest of UBC's blood money.
Prescott Bush received $1.5 million for his share in UBC. That money enabled Bush to help his son, George Herbert Walker Bush, to set up his first royalty firm, Overby Development Company, that same year. It was also helpful when Prescott Bush left the business world to enter the public arena in 1952 with a successful senatorial campaign in Connecticut. On October 8th, 1972, Prescott Bush died of cancer and his will was enacted soon after.
In 1980, when George H.W. Bush was elected vice president, he placed his father's family inherence in a blind trust. The trust was managed by his old friend and quail hunting partner, William "Stamps" Farish III. Bush's choice of Farish to manage the family wealth is quite revealing in that it demonstrates that the former president might know exactly where some of his inheritance originated. Farish's grandfather, William Farish Jr., on March 25th, 1942, pleaded "no contest" to conspiring with Nazi Germany while president of Standard Oil in New Jersey. He was described by Senator Harry Truman in public of approaching "treason" for profiting off the Nazi war machine. Standard Oil, invested millions in IG Farben, who opened a gasoline factory within Auschwitz in 1940. The billions "Stamps" inherited had more blood on it then Bush, so the paper trail of UBC stock would be safe during his 12 years in presidential politics.
It has been 60 years since one of the great money laundering scandals of the 20th century ended and only now are we beginning to see the true historical aspects of this important period of world history, a history that the remaining Holocaust survivors beg humanity to "never forget."
Loftus believes history will view Prescott Bush as harshly as Thyssen. "It is bad enough that the Bush family helped raise the money for Thyssen to give Hitler his start in the 1920s, but giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war is treason. The Bush bank helped the Thyssens make the Nazi steel that killed Allied solders. As bad as financing the Nazi war machine may seem, aiding and abetting the Holocaust was worse. Thyssen's coal mines used Jewish slaves as if they were disposable chemicals. There are six million skeletons in the Thyssen family closet, and a myriad of criminal and historical questions to be answered about the Bush family's complicity."
There is no question that the Bush family needs to donate at least $1.5 million to the proper holocaust reparation fund. Since Prescott Bush is dead, the only way to compensate is for the main inheritors of his estate to make amends with surviving slaves and the families of slaves who died in Bush and Thyssen's coal mines. If the Bush family refuses to contribute the money to compensate for Prescott Bush's involvement in the Holocaust, it is like denying the Holocaust itself and their role in one of the darkest moments in world history.
http://www.clamormagazine.org/features/issue14.3_feature.3.html
Posted by loner @ 12/14/2002 05:35 AM EST
Hi vox--The picture that's being painted by posted responses to this article is that of a rather unpleasant human being--definitely not one i'd want to be stuck in a malfunctioning elevator with.
Re 6stringdood's violence begets violence and arming ourselves w/knowledge: Am aging hippie always highly suspicious of rapid leap in technological advances following WWII and roswell, etc., and therefore refused to have anything to do w/computers until 4 months ago (my good fortune to find vox's site within 3 days)--my journeys into internet land have confirmed my worst suspicions/intuitions.
Back in the "Summer of Love" days had vague idea that all people basically good, and that sending out Peace and Love vibes could awaken mass consciousness and change world--the image i'm getting now is of some immense fanged, clawed, soul-dead eyed beast that has been waiting for eons for this time right now when enough of those "basically good" people are its servants, either knowingly (in high places) or in ignorance (USA military guarding megacorps oil pipelines--Dudes! What does this have to do w/defending our Constitution?).
Suppose it is the right thing to do to continue to work for changes for the better--impeachment an honorable idea--maybe where you live your neighbors are all talking loudly, publicly, and indignantly about what's going on and are meeting and planning viable courses of action--not here, where shopping and tv-watching going on full-force, and where rare nervous, quiet little comments are the extent of speaking out (and where "activists" discuss cleaning up trash in town and forming committees). And after the senate and house votes on the iraq resolution--we the people let our elected reps know in no uncertain terms that we did not want this "war", in some cases 400 to 1 against--after that, do you really believe that our reps listen to us? We get sops thrown to us once in a while, as w/mr k's recent resignation, and delay of mandatory vaccinations--but suspect this due
to accurate gauge of what might stir the slumbering masses--and it seems to be important to someone that we stay asleep. Have uneasy feeling about what is going to happen in those countries, like Brazil and Venezuela, where the people ARE uniting in peaceful resistance. Sometimes wonder if those in places of power laugh at our peace demonstrations--the (mostly young) protestors against imf/wto not so well tolerated.
Recently a nonviolent resistance friend told me that if armed men (maybe women, too) broke into her home and killed her and family, it would be no big deal because this life is not all there is--my personal experiences lead me to believe that consciousness does go on--but have been thinking of late of much-maligned (and cruelly treated worldwide) animals and how they fight to the death for their lives and to protect their children --unless we've bred that natural instinct out of them--and then mock them for what we made them--seeing some scary parallels here.
Still want a world at peace, where all children safe and loved and Earth not being destroyed--but am reconsidering most effective ways to bring this about.
Thanks, vox.
Peace and Freedom, kathleen
Posted by kathleen beatty @ 12/14/2002 05:59 AM EST
Know anyone in the US government that feels like living in Sweden? :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sweden Offers Free Speech Refuge To US Officials
By Dennis Hans
LiberalSlant.com
12-13-02
STOCKHOLM -- Blaine Williams hasn't stopped grinning since he arrived in Sweden two weeks ago. Several times a day he'll approach a complete stranger, offer a handshake and a smile, introduce himself as a former CIA analyst from America, and proceed to tell the bewildered Swede all the things he knows that directly contradict President George W. Bush's declarations about Saddam Hussein's intentions and capabilities.
"Free at last!" Williams exclaimed to a reporter as he sat on his front porch and waved to new neighbors. "I was stuck in a totalitarian bureaucracy for 14 months. What a relief it is to say in public who I am and what I think."
Williams is the first of dozens of former U.S. government employees expected to take refuge in Sweden over the next several months, courtesy of a bold project of the new social democratic government.
On October 15, the Swedish Parliament appropriated 500 million dollars for the "Palme Plan." Named for former Swedish president Olaf Palme, it promotes the virtues of free and honest speech among government officials in underdeveloped democracies.
"Swedes have always been generous in providing economic aid to countries with underdeveloped economies," said Erland Carlsson, the parliamentarian who conceived the Palme Plan. "But we've done little to promote democratic development in underdeveloped democracies."
Some leaders of underdeveloped democracies have welcomed Sweden's "democracy teams," encouraging their efforts to create a culture of candor and transparency in the corridors of power. Those efforts comprise the overt component of the Palme Plan. The covert component kicks in when a leader is hostile to the very notions of candor and transparency.
Palme, who was Carlsson's political mentor, believed his greatest failure as president was his inability, during the Vietnam War, to persuade U.S. officialdom of the virtues of public candor. "Palme believed that if the national security bureaucracy had not been cowed into silence in the face of a torrent of deceit from a determined White House, the U.S. would never have invaded and destroyed Vietnam," Carlsson said.
An October 8 story in the Houston Chronicle, by Jonathan Landy and Warren Strobel ( http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/nation/1607676), convinced Carlsson that the same suffocating environment had enveloped key sectors of the Bush administration.
Thirteen officials from the CIA, State Department and Pentagon, many with vast experience in the Middle East and South Asia, told Landy and Strobel the same thing: The White House has squelched dissent, imposed conformity and silence, demanded skewed analyses to justify its hard line, and repeatedly exaggerated or falsified intelligence information to inflate the Saddam threat.
What most alarmed the Swedish MP was that none of the analysts were willing to be quoted by name. Some were too frightened even to be quoted anonymously.
"I couldn't help thinking that if these informed, respected patriots could raise their voices openly and in unison, they'd stop the administration's chicken hawks in their tracks," Carlsson said. "Public and congressional support for the war path would whither, and the president would be exposed as the world's most crooked 'straight shooter.'"
Borrowing Bush's Brilliant Idea
When Bush insisted that U.N. weapons inspectors be able to take Iraqi scientists and their families outside of Iraq for interviews, thus protecting the scientists from possible retaliation by Saddam's secret police, Carlsson had the solution that had eluded Palme so many years ago.
"That's it!" he told a colleague. "We'll offer U.S. bureaucrats and their families safe passage to Sweden and a secure environment from which they can speak freely and publicly to the folks back home. They can stay here at our expense until a climate of openness and honesty prevails in the Bush administration."
In addition to Williams, 28 other bureaucrats and their families are en route to Stockholm. All were spirited out of Washington by a team of Swedish secret agents who had honed their rescue skills in Yugoslavia and the Congo.
Once the former officials settle into their new homes and get comfortable with saying who they are and what they think, they'll spend their time giving speeches an interviews.
Former CIA analyst Williams is already a sensation on Swedish TV as a regular guest on the top-rated chat show, Nugen Farger ("Hard Rugby"). On a recent edition, he parsed a string of Bush's statements on Iraq, including assertions at a Republican fundraiser that Saddam Hussein hopes to deploy al Qaeda as his "forward army" against the West, and that "we need to think about Saddam Hussein using al Qaeda to do his dirty work, to not leave fingerprints behind."
"I can assure you," Williams told Swedish viewers, "that no one at CIA believes a word Bush said. What's more, no one at CIA believes that Bush believes a word Bush said."
Strong words, and Williams anticipates an echo chamber as more of Sweden's newest residents regain their voice. But he wonders if members of the U.S. news media, particularly those he calls "the boobs on the tube," will dare to listen.
Posted by ewar @ 12/14/2002 07:29 AM EST
How sad that Dr. Kissinger has resigned from the "independent" 911 investigation due to potential conflicts of interest(such as the conflict of interest in bringing out the truth). Now Bush will have to find a replacement. In fitting with his other recent Iran Contra appointments, I suggest he appoint Oliver North. North knows lots about covering up illegal operations and shreading documents after all he received several felony convictions for these things. Oh but he's too busy working as a journalist bringing us the truth on Fox News.
Posted by MR. ELEVEN @ 12/14/2002 09:18 AM EST
Better yet, Bush Jr. could appoint Bush Sr. to head the investigation - no conflict of interest there. Just like there was no conflict of interest with Bush's brother overseeing the Florida recount. Besides G.H.W. Bush Sr. has that extra middle name to assure his independence from G.W.Bush Jr. With Bush Sr. back inside, he won't have to feign playing golf with his son when issuing instructions anymore and can free up the course.
Posted by MR. ELEVEN @ 12/14/2002 09:58 AM EST
...free for the Carlyle group to meet with the Bin Ladens with assurance that the 911 investigation will completely ignore them as they plot more ways for the military industrial complex to make themselves even more incomprehensably wealthy.
Posted by MR. ELEVEN @ 12/14/2002 10:35 AM EST
Excerpt from msnbc.com's article on Kissinger resigning as head of the 9/11 panel.
"Bush said in a statement that he had accepted Kissinger’s resignation even though he believed “his chairmanship would have provided the insights and analysis THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS (my emphasis) to understand the methods of our enemies and the nature of the threats we face.”"
What happened to the insights & anaysis that the PEOPLE need...??? We Americans have gone so far away from the idea of 'government of the people, for the people, by the people' and that the people who hold government office are PUBLIC SERVANTS. We have to stop looking at 'the government' as the 'THEY' who are going to protect us, and nourish us, and everything else for us. That train of thought is what has gotten/is getting the people of the US in the police state/lying/conspiracy/cover-up/New World Order mess that we're dealing with now! The 'little guys' stopped paying attention and caring and getting involved/voicing their opinions. We (a lot of us) need to encourage and support leaders and others who DO show some spine and cherish the true values of a democracy. They need to know that there are a lot of us out here :o). Remember that the people that are currently 'in control' are only a relatively small group, albeit powerful and rich.
I know it's only 'dreaming', but I wish the families of the 9/11 victims could decide who would head the 9/11 panel. We as a nation need to ask honest and difficult questions and DEMAND honest answers. We need that panel to be made up of people that have nothing to gain or lose whatever the outcome of their investigation is.
Speaking of encouraging and supporting....thank you vox for a great site.
Peace
Posted by Suzette @ 12/14/2002 11:22 AM EST
Why waste your time and thoughts on Bush and his cabal.
They (illuminati) will all be swept away by the comming earth-changes. And many of us as well.
It all will end on 21/12/2012.
And until that day our solar-system with the sun as the Lord will provide for all who can bear it, the so needed catalysts to finally become a spiritual entity.
The rest will be in fear and denial and will be crushed by ( soon to begin) higher vibrations or density that is ariving in our system.
Forget about bush or Irak, its the last breath of evil.
Prepare yourself for these coming earth-changes, which will make the US military might look like a 1 year old puppy.
Prepare for harvest ( ascension) and try to be one of the few who will occupy earth AFTER 21/12/2012.
For then Earth will be a fourth density planet, and will learn together with its inhabitants the ways of LOVE and service to OTHERS.
2003 will be a year in which mankind will endure GREAT CHANGES so...
FASTEN YOUR SEATBELTS, for REVELATIONS is comming.
Happy New Year.
Posted by Unknown @ 12/14/2002 11:30 AM EST
I asked my son the other day, "Whose that guy on tv?" He said, "Saddam." Guess who it was, yep georgie.
Posted by oso @ 12/14/2002 11:39 AM EST
To Unknown,
Don't be so hopeless, despairing, and misleading to other people. You're also being very arrogant (and sinful) - probably without even realizing it. Matthew 24:36 says, "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father". (NIV version).
Keep your mind on things that are good and right and true. Educate yourself and your children in those things. Do the little bits that you can to promote beautiful and timeless things like love, truth, beauty, justice...turn away from, refuse to support the things that destroy like greed, lies, immorality - that's really all we can do - then leave the rest up to God.
Remember that good always wins :o)
Peace
Posted by Suzette @ 12/14/2002 12:17 PM EST
Thanks for that post Suzette. I agree completly. No one will know the hour. I'll tell you one thing that makes me feel better is knowing that one day, they that choose evil will have to be accountable one day.
Posted by oso @ 12/14/2002 12:22 PM EST
Hey anybody here on the liberthinkg.com mailing list? I recieved this early this morning and am posting the section that was of interest regarding this site and Vox.
As follows:
(12/13/2002 10:14:00 PM)
Dear Valis Thank you for your excellent site. At 10 oclock this morning (Dec 13) Approximately 40 agents from a joint group of CIA, FBI, And Major Crimes unit. Surrounded my home on Long Island New York (I was not there) and entered and proceeded to conduct a thorough search and removal operation while detaining a tennant who occupuys an apartment on the premises. I am in contact with my counsel (from NYCLU) NY Civil Liberties Union. (Norm Seigal) I will try to make a further update tommorrow. As for now I wish someone could archive as many of the articles on my voxnyc.com site as possible. I apologize for such a brief note but it has been a terrible moment and I am literally on the run. I do not wish this information to be released until after I have suitable time to consult with my counsul maybe a day or two. Thank you vox
-----
Frankly i'm not sure what to make of this but thought that perhaps it should be brought to attention. I'm not posting the entire newsletter as its just news topics that can be found on libthinks website.
Feel free to send a request to balkor@netzero.net and i can fwd you a copy of the newsletter from a hotmail account as the netzero is only incoming mail for me.
Posted by Xaos @ 12/14/2002 12:28 PM EST
"frankly I'm not sure what to make of this" are you kidding, if it was a hoax he would't be begging people to archive his website would he?
Posted by charlie @ 12/14/2002 05:53 PM EST
With regards to Nostradamus prophesies, with Napoleon it was simply his name given straight out but with the subsequent two anti-christs there is a play on words to emphasize the increase in evil with each one.
Hister is a play on words combining the two worst, identifiable by their nomenclature, elements of Nazi Germany.- Hitler and the SS.
Similarly Mabus is another play on words by Nostradamus. Ma is the inverse of dubya, signifying this particular anti-christ or inverse of Christ and thus inverse of himself because Christ is his saviour (remember he says he is a born-again christian). In which case we have the first and last letters of G W Bush removed signifying that he has no beginning and end in himself as he begins and ends with Satan and the MIDDLE initial inversed signifying his inversed inner self or anti inner-self.
Nostradamus even foresaw his nickname dubya hence the ma rather than just the m to make it even more clear and the fact that he would be referred to as G W Bush and not just Bush, to distinguish him from his father. The reason for this was to describe most perfecly who and what the man is.
The emphasis in this particular play on words, on the anti-, (inversal) signifies that being the last antichrist he will undoubtedly be the worst.
Its all very simple and all very clear, Poor George.
So you see Nostradamus wasn't just close about the names, he was spot on about them , and whats more included information which identified them far more accurately and with unbelieveable economy, than simply stating their names, which in the age of censorship, Nazi Germany, Modern America, would have led to his work not seeing the light of day. Notice he didn't take this precaution with Napoleon, it wasn't necessary in those times.
Posted by charlie @ 12/14/2002 06:47 PM EST
what a fun show this life is. i cant wait to see what happens next. the red dragon has the power and thats fine with me. i was getting a bit bored with the norm anyway. just sit back laugh smile and love it only gets worse before it gets better. but when all is said and done we will be free......
Posted by love against the machine @ 12/14/2002 10:29 PM EST
Some problems demand action. Sorry, but sitting on our asses and pointing and clicking does zilch.
Anybody ever heard of VOTING??
Fuckin' morons.
Aint it funny when you got 70% of the population whining, but only about 40% voted. I think those other 30 should just stick their heads back up their butts and shut up.
Posted by stonecutter @ 12/15/2002 12:24 AM EST
Some problems demand action. Sorry, but sitting on our asses and pointing and clicking does zilch.
Anybody ever heard of VOTING??
Fuckin' morons.
Aint it funny when you got 70% of the population whining, but only about 40% voted. I think those other 30 should just stick their heads back up their butts and shut up.
Posted by stonecutter @ 12/15/2002 12:25 AM EST
Busch looking at Bob Dole to replace Soviet Agent Heinz Kissinger! We've to deal with his wife here in the Senate, now this!?
Let's talk about the Real BOB DOLE.
When many people consider the liberal and evil agenda of the Clinton administration with its pro-homosexual, pro-abortion and pro-everything evil activities, they somehow believe that the Republicans will come riding in to rescue us. There are men like Bob Dole and Newt Gingrich, who presented us with the "Contract with America" in 1995. These men use words like "family values", "pro-life" and other buzz-words that endear them to people with decency. Here let it be noted that it was the "conservative" Bob Dole, who voted to confirm Clinton's choice, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, to the Supreme Court. Ginsburg made open reference to herself as being pro-abortion, pro-prostitution and pro-pedophilia. It was this same Bob Dole, who voted repeatedly to fund Planned Parenthood, which promotes abortion and immoral sex. Dole also voted for the Americans with Disability Act with the knowledge that this act makes A.I.D.S. a privileged disability. In addition to all of that, Dole also voted for F.A.C.E., which is the legislative act that puts Christians in prison for even peaceably protesting abortion. Another important point to remember about Bob Dole is that he is a 33rd DEGREED MASON in the Scottish Rite. Thus, he is a very high ranking member of the Grand Orient and the Illuminati.
Posted by Gino @ 12/15/2002 06:37 AM EST
I agree with you Stonecutter about more people (everyone of legal voting age) needing to get out there and actually VOTE.
This is one of those 'little bits' that all of us here can do to help turn-the-tide against the cabal that's currently running things. 1) Register to Vote - do it now, don't wait until an election is getting near 2) Talk to all of the people that you run across in your daily life and encourage/explain why it's VITAL that they vote. Explain to the ones that say, 'it doesn't make a difference' or 'I don't like any of the choices' or 'I'm not interested in politics' why it's vitally important that they at least get to the polls and prove that they SHOW UP. The reason that politicians don't care about the black vote or the hispanic vote or the votes in our poorest neighborhoods is because THEY DON'T VOTE. The politicians don't have to worry about losing their votes, they don't have to 'court' them, because they just don't make a difference either way when they don't vote!
If we can get the people who are leaders in the 'underserved' communities to get their communities to get out there and REGISTER (and then ultimately vote), if they show this huge swelling of new-found interest in who their leaders are - wow, will they start straightening up and listening to what some of their problems/issues are. So, talk to the person who cuts your hair, the checker at the grocery store, the guy who paints your house, etc. - I have and found that generally those folks don't vote and it's more in THEIR interest to vote than the 'rich guy'. I have done my 'little bit' to encourage folks who don't vote to now do so and explain why it's important.
Here's an excerpt from Molly Ivins Oct. 29, 2002 column that I think sums it up pretty well:
"Politics is not a picture on a wall or a television sitcom you can decide you don't much care for. Is the person who prescribes your eyeglasses qualified to do so? How deep will you be buried when you die? What textbooks are your children learning from at school? What will happen if you become seriously ill? Is the meat you're eating tainted? Will you be able to afford to go to college or to send your kids? Would you like a vacation? Expect to retire before you die? Can you find a job? Drive a car? Afford insurance? Is your credit card company or your banker or your broker ripping you off? It's all politics, Bubba. You don't get to opt out for lack of interest."
(Entire article at http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_3021.shtml)
Two other points: From now on, when you hear anybody say something like, 'don't vote, it doesn't matter anyway' you can regard them as "an enemy of democracy" just as much as some of these big fishes we discuss on this site. Do your bit to correct these misguided souls and get them to stop misleading others.
Secondly, we need to assure that we have recountable PAPER ballots for all future elections. We need to do our part to make sure that that happens. Otherwise, politicians will be winning by a coincidental 18,181 votes all over the country ;o)
Remember that the 'thief can't come into your house and steal what you have unless you let him'. Let's not let our democracy be stolen from us, if it is perhaps we only have ourselves to blame.
Peace
Posted by Suzette @ 12/15/2002 08:18 AM EST
If you haven't seen this already, you've GOT to take a look. It will make your day!
The head of the government's Total Information Awareness project, John Poindexter, has himself become a target of personal data profiling.
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,56860,00.html
Posted by Suzette @ 12/15/2002 08:35 AM EST
In response to 2012:
Bush is the King of Terror, described by Nostradamus. He is probably Mabus too.
Nostradamus predicted the King of Terror that would come from the sky. The King that would resuscitate the king of Angolmois. And that war would rage happily (or for a good while).
Posted by Max @ 12/15/2002 09:11 AM EST
IMPEACH the "compassionate necrophile", Do It Today!!!
The necrophilous dwell in the past, never in the future. Their feelings are essentially sentimental, that is, they nurse the memory of feelings which they had yesterday--or believe that they had. They are cold, distant, devotees of "law and order." Their values are precisely the reverse of the values we connect with normal life: not life, but death excites and satisfies them.
Check out the similarities of some big time necrophiles at:
http://www.thepubliccause.net/Articles/BushHitlerStalinGop.html
Posted by Homes @ 12/15/2002 05:14 PM EST
So... IS VOXNYC ARRESTED???? OR WAS THAT JUST A HOAX (several message back) ... I don't know about your guys, but i really want to know!
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/15/2002 07:38 PM EST
Yes--speak to us, vox--let us know you're ok
kathleen
Posted by kathleen beatty @ 12/15/2002 08:01 PM EST
VOX had better be OK...............
Posted by north wind @ 12/15/2002 08:18 PM EST
Suzette,
Homeland is what Hitler called the Third Reich as well ("Fatherland"). And the USSR was the Motherland to its comrades ("Mother Russia").
Posted by Yossarian @ 12/15/2002 08:20 PM EST
Suzette, your earlier link ref: Poindexter didn't work. Check out http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,56860,00.html
Posted by north wind @ 12/15/2002 09:18 PM EST
I believe vox is really on the run or arrested. Or he would have answered.
Attacking the internet is the next stage in their war. All those telecommunications companies (Qwest, Global Crossings, Worldcom - now with Giuliani as president) didn't go bankrupt by themselves. These guys are going after the www!
Posted by flow @ 12/16/2002 01:54 AM EST
maybe we should contact jeff rense program or david icke (or others who may be able to allert others - exert an influence - and make this public?
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/16/2002 02:34 AM EST
maybe we should contact the jeff rense program or david icke (or others who may be able to broadcast this information to a larger audience, thereby increasing pressure on TPTS (the powers that suck). we can't let this sit! (obviously)
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/16/2002 02:36 AM EST
I took the liberty of writing to Jeff Rense about VOXNYC being MIA. Here is the letter I sent him, hopefully he will follow up soon.
_
Dear Jeff Rense Program:
It has come to the attention of the board members at voxnyc.com that the moderator is MIA. If you go to his website, you will find the below message in the thread called "BUSH IS A FRAUD". We are not sure if it is a hoax or not, but Vox himself has not answered us as to whether he is okay or not and he normally responds immediately. Please have a look at this. If it's true that he is on the run or has been apprehended, it is surely illuegal, and this needs to reach a wider audience. pressure needs to be exerted.
here is the message in the thread mentioned above:
__
Hey anybody here on the liberthinkg.com mailing list? I recieved this early this morning and am posting the section that was of interest regarding this site and Vox.
As follows:
(12/13/2002 10:14:00 PM)
Dear Valis Thank you for your excellent site. At 10 oclock this morning (Dec 13) Approximately 40 agents from a joint group of CIA, FBI, And Major Crimes unit. Surrounded my home on Long Island New York (I was not there) and entered and proceeded to conduct a thorough search and removal operation while detaining a tennant who occupuys an apartment on the premises. I am in contact with my counsel (from NYCLU) NY Civil Liberties Union. (Norm Seigal) I will try to make a further update tommorrow. As for now I wish someone could archive as many of the articles on my voxnyc.com site as possible. I apologize for such a brief note but it has been a terrible moment and I am literally on the run. I do not wish this information to be released until after I have suitable time to consult with my counsul maybe a day or two. Thank you vox
-----
Frankly i'm not sure what to make of this but thought that perhaps it should be brought to attention. I'm not posting the entire newsletter as its just news topics that can be found on libthinks website.
Feel free to send a request to balkor@netzero.net and i can fwd you a copy of the newsletter from a hotmail account as the netzero is only incoming mail for me.
Posted by Xaos @ 12/14/2002 12:28 PM EST
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/16/2002 02:53 AM EST
i have also contacted david icke to investigate this.
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/16/2002 04:24 AM EST
hm perhaps someone could contact norm seigal and see if possiblly he has some info on vox he can share with us.
Posted by loner @ 12/16/2002 04:59 AM EST
also on whatreallyhappened a letter from vox
Posted by tom @ 12/16/2002 05:35 AM EST
tom, where on wrh did you see the letter?
Posted by ewar @ 12/16/2002 05:41 AM EST
ewar - its in the readers letters section.
Posted by hausigaarn @ 12/16/2002 06:26 AM EST
"I told all fourthat there were
going to be some times where
we don't agree with each other. But
that's okay. If this were a dictatorship, it'd be aheck of a lot easier- just as long as
I'm the dictator."
George W. Bush, December
18th 2000, comment made during the
first trip to Washington, D.C
after winning the presidency
Posted by Cedar Wolf @ 12/16/2002 06:41 AM EST
if vox is on the run or arrested and requested all material be archived why is this site still up and running? if theyre going to get him then why not shut down his tool of communication at the same time? why allow readers to continue to talk about his postings if they dont like what hes saying?
Posted by hausigaarn @ 12/16/2002 06:58 AM EST
after perusing the letter section of wrh the only mention of vox is this rather disturbing missive:
EMAIL FROM A READER:
If I didn’t know better, I would think now is the time to believe that free speech regardless of content, is considered terrorist in nature. The first to go is always the litmus of public opinion, and being that Voxfux will never get to make his opinion know via the media, he will be tried in the court of public opinion being presented by the slanted media. He is screwed beyond any meaning, and like wise the litmus will also reflect what Shrub wants. Speak out against the government, and you can, SHOULD expect to be visited. Unless every American meets them at the door with force, the thugs win. That is reality. It is obvious that common sense plays no part in the current day politics, but it also no longer plays in the media. The “journalists” or talking heads on CNN do not even have a glint in their eyes that they no longer believe the lies they spew forth, and when the questioning stops then they know they have won. What we object to now will become policy tomorrow, as it was already in your links today.
It is a sad ending for liberty.
Only if you let it be.
Posted by loner @ 12/16/2002 08:31 AM EST
hausigaarn, that's a good question. however, it's also strange that there is no word from vox. normally, he reads the comments regularly and answers or comments right away. it's strange that he has not answered us.
it's very strange. i wonder if vox has a partner/moderator. maybe vox is a group of people... who knows. but then again, if that was the case, wouldn't 'they' have spoken up?
well, i wrote to rense.com, and davidicke.com to investigate this and publish it. i have not heard back from them as of yet...
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/16/2002 08:35 AM EST
The feds actually have a legal right to pay vox a visit (not that I agree) based on the posting of the article:
By Bushes Own
Policy, He Must Be Immediatly Terminated
No Trial, No Explanation, No Warning - Just Immediate Obliteration
Remember, the feds have paid visits to persons turned in for having the wrong poster on their wall.
As far as the search...I guess that became legal through the HSA.
I would speculate that the purpose of the visit would have been to feel vox out and determine if he was a threat to the president...and nothing would come of it if he wasn't. But after that guy got 3 years for a burning bush joke...I'd be running too.
Posted by It was a given @ 12/16/2002 09:15 AM EST
nee hier: bon travail! good job.
I think they wanna scare vox and make an obedient citizen out of him.
I'll contact Indymedia, maybe they know something.
Keep in touch. You can reach me in private through my website.
Posted by flow @ 12/16/2002 09:20 AM EST
Anybody living in NYC: this is Indymedia NYC's adress.
34 East 29th Street
2nd floor
NY, NY 10016-7918
Go there and make the VOX-disappearance a topic, they must know him. All I can do is send an email (I'm not in the US right now), but that might be too slow.
Posted by flow @ 12/16/2002 09:27 AM EST
Even before the recent anti-terrorist legislation, Americans could be arrested for no reason other than someone claims they heard them say something dangerous. This happened to football star Jim Brown who was arrested, charged, and aquitted of making a "terrorist threat" against his wife in 1999. Seriously, I hope Vox is OK and would respond.
Posted by MR. ELEVEN @ 12/16/2002 09:38 AM EST
flow, i don't have your web address. can you pass it to me? merci.
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/16/2002 10:01 AM EST
VOXFUX in trouble?
Dear Valis
Thank you for your excellent site.
At 10 oclock this morning (Dec 13) Approximately 40 agents from a joint group of CIA, FBI, And Major Crimes unit. Surrounded my home on Long Island New York (I was not there) and entered and proceeded to conduct a thorough search and removal operation while detaining a tennant who occupuys an apartment on the premises. I am in contact with my counsel (from NYCLU) NY Civil Liberties Union. (Norm Seigal)
I will try to make a further update tommorrow. As for now I wish someone could archive as many of the articles on my voxnyc.com site as possible. I apologize for such a brief note but it has been a terrible moment and I am literally on the run. I do not wish this information to be released until after I have suitable time to consult with my counsul maybe a day or two. Thank you
vox
Note: He's had a broken graphic on his page for days now. His hotmail inbox is stuffed to capacity, which I am assuming means that he has not been checking his mail, nor did he send me anymore updates.
Posted by valis @ 12/16/2002 11:48 AM EST
(names are linked to webpages in this forum.)
I've emailed Indymedia NYC, and I urge all New Yorkers to go to
34 East 29th Street
2nd floor
NY, NY 10016-7918
and adress the problem of vox's disappearance. who the fuck do these bastards think they are?
Posted by flow @ 12/16/2002 12:10 PM EST
you can email indymedia nyc at:
let them now vox is MIA and ask for an investigation.
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/16/2002 01:39 PM EST
I belive this is a hoax on the part of Voxfux to mak himself seem more important than he really is.On the Bush is a fraud article I have left a couple of messages that go against his conspiracy fruitcake ideas and sure enough they have been deleted in order to keep his web site pro him.If the government is on to him I hope they drag his Smack Talking Ass to the darkest corner of the world and implement the new CIA program the top death file on him slowly.
This idiot is wrong all the time especially with Kissenger how is he going to clean up the 911 mess when he quit the commission.Wake up you sheep and see that this is a brokendown little punk who never got enough love as a child taking his shit out on society.
Posted by Unknoen Soilder @ 12/16/2002 01:48 PM EST
I belive this is a hoax on the part of Voxfux to mak himself seem more important than he really is.On the Bush is a fraud article I have left a couple of messages that go against his conspiracy fruitcake ideas and sure enough they have been deleted in order to keep his web site pro him.If the government is on to him I hope they drag his Smack Talking Ass to the darkest corner of the world and implement the new CIA program the top death file on him slowly.
This idiot is wrong all the time especially with Kissenger how is he going to clean up the 911 mess when he quit the commission.Wake up you sheep and see that this is a brokendown little punk who never got enough love as a child taking his shit out on society.
Posted by Unknown Soldier @ 12/16/2002 01:48 PM EST
Why is it that unknoen shoilder is posted the extact time as unknown soldier...seems kinda wierd...don't ya think? why is it that on the mainpage of this website in the upper right hand corner of the page it states ENTERTAINMENT, I don't know that I would refer to all of the info on this site entertaining. This site has alot of interesting stories...but these little details are a little confusing. I wonder if this site is something the government uses as a profiling tool....
Posted by freedomspirit @ 12/16/2002 02:18 PM EST
"Unblown Smoulder" you are nothing if not consistent - thanks for the many many laughs you give us all whenever you free up your vaselined-up digits, you truly are priceless. Alas - minus 5 points for mentioning "ass" only once this time around. Also minus another 10 for mentioning "fruitcake". You are slipping (and that is not surprising with the amount of shares you own with KY jelly...)
By "The Darkest Corner Of the World" I assume you mean that Go-Men-Go Gulag, Guantanamo Bay? You know, in that itty bitty little country that Uncle Spam has no right to be in in the first place? You know, the place that is untouchable by all courts of law, even the UN, so that the cowards running it can hide on gen-U-ine US of A soil, you know, the land stolen from the aboriginal natives by your ancestors in spirit?
I also was most impressed by your ground-breaking idea about a CIA team assassinating VOX, get this - SLOWLY - hey, how about the Chinese Water Torture method, maybe using half a dozen drips an hour? Maybe the CIA could do it over a period of a dozen years or so, maybe limit it to every other weekend? Or maybe wait for VOX to reach pensionable age and then sabotage his Zimmer Frame? Would that work, or did you have a slower assassination method in mind?
You could keep a Psychiatrist's Convention in San Francisco with enough material to last them for a week. Or maybe two.
Simper Fi
- my sweet smouldering braveheart - ROTFLM (oops!) AO!!!!!!!
Posted by andy @ 12/16/2002 02:34 PM EST
No, Freedom Spirit, no conspiracy, Unknown "soilder" is just an idiot. At least he figured out how to spell his name on the second post. Imagine cleaning up his laundry? Eeewwww....
Posted by Known Speller @ 12/16/2002 02:46 PM EST
Fingers of frost creep across our December windows as we fire up our computers long before dawn to check the latest atrocity from Washington, the latest affront to the honesty and dignity of the human race. I imagine that me and my circle of Internet friends must be somewhat like the French Resistance of its time, spreading the latest rumors of war and trying to debunk false charges of terror laid at our feet by men who pretend to be our leaders but who are really the stooges of a foreign power, an alien menace even, these soulless men who run the banks, keep us in chains, and obliterate our Constitution in the process.
Perhaps the Resistance analogy is a little overdrawn. I mean, we don't have Nazi stormtroopers bearing down on us with guns drawn ... yet. Although there was an incident in Eugene, Oregon the other day ....
The new Resistance is definitely online, checking out the latest tirade from a new cadre of great writers, great pursuers of liberty, Arundhati Roy in India, Chris Floyd in Moscow, Mike Ruppert in Los Angeles, Al Giordano in Caracas and voices from a thousand principled stops in between. The new Resistance is checking out Web radio - Jeff Rense, Alex Jones, Meria Heller and many others - because there you can hear what's actually happening, not what corporate banker radio would like you to believe is going on with fascist phonies like Rush Limbaugh and the prominent Moonie, Pat Robertson.
The new revolution is you and me, and is definitely not being reported in the newspapers, who keep telling us Bush's popularity is at an all-time high and give us not a whisper that the evil men in the White House who are allowed to keep their lucrative secrets by judges who rule against the people's right to know are the very same men who appointed those very same judges, a rancid closed circle of horror that lets the guilty rich go free and jails poor innocents without trial, without phone call, without hope.
Each day a new horror, stories eagerly passed around from computer to computer, from state to state and country to country. Just when we thought it would be hard to top the Wellstone incident for sheer horror - oh, the FAA can't figure out what happened; well, WE all instantly figured out what happened - along comes the Kissinger debacle. Henry Kissinger to ferret out what really happened on 9/11. Well, if my name isn't Ho Chi Minh! And just when we think Kissinger can't be topped as an outrage to freedom and justice, the lead story in my Sunday paper yesterday was Bush declaring he can kill whomever he wants to merely on his own say so.
This is what America has come to - making lists of people who can be killed on the spot.
First Bush passed a law saying he could keep people in jail without trial and without lawyer and without phone call merely on the say so of any of his totally corrupt functionaries; now he's graduated to saying he can kill anyone he pleases merely on whim " sure, sure, they'll produce "evidence," but as in the case with Iraq and this funny group named al-Qaeda (the one that nobody ever seems to be able to find until some Nazi [read: U.S. or Israel] government arrests them and releases a neatly packaged photo and bio), they don't ever have to release the "evidence", they just have to say they have it, and then Tony Blair will get up and freak out about how dangerous these folks are, the ones that they have the "evidence" against, kind of like what happened right after 9/11, when Blair insisted we had this irrefutable "evidence" against Osama bin Laden, which we still have not, by the way, seen.
And as long as I'm going in this direction, let me point something out: The real purpose of 9/11, it seems to me, was to demonize Muslims, to make public consciousness more amenable to going to war against Muslim countries. Most people have accepted the general drift of media coverage and accepted bin Laden's guilt, accepted that this was a Muslim conspiracy, Muslims who drank and went to strip clubs and used cocaine, devout Muslims who gave their lives for the holy terror against the West "because they envied our freedom."
Have you ever heard anything stupider than that assertion? Well, yes, actually " that anybody believes that story!
We must not completely forget that Osama bin Laden may not actually exist - except in the minds of war publicists. It is already a virtual certainty that this dreaded al-Qaeda bunch is actually a department of the U.S. CIA, designed to wreak fake terror in order to facilitate more oppressive laws to keep the unruly population in check.
When you start to track this whole terror suicide tangent, you run across something else that you may not have noticed and that you certainly won't read in big newspapers, especially the biggest newspaper, the New York Times. It's that long-ago Lyndon LaRouche assertion that Hamas and Islamic Jihad have received funding from Israel because they oppose the PLO; yes, that's Israel funding terror against itself. Why would they do that? Think about it. Why were those Israelis cheering in New Jersey right after the towers were hit? Think about who benefits from terror. Think about why 9/11 really happened and why you don't read a single thing about this in the newspapers, even though it is the most important subject to be thinking about in all the world.
Well, you can bet me and my friends in the new resistance are thinking about it, every day and at all times. Let's face it: Nazi bankers have taken over the world and are trying to turn every country into a combination of plantation run by them and concentration camp containing us. George W. Bush wants every country in the world to be exactly like Honduras, where the killer villains are in charge, ordinary people have no say, and rich criminals far away steal the bulk of that country's value and the local populace is drugged or bludgeoned into silence. That is, as they say, the Republican message of today.
America is making war on its own people, and using convicted and as yet uncaught criminals to do it: felon John Poindexter tracking the secret facts of Americans. Now that is simply Hitlerian. John Ashcroft is a felon who simply has not yet been arrested.
And George W. Bush? You want the list? (Note the number of death penalty offenses he has committed!) How about starting with military desertion in time of war? Of course, there is the cocaine smuggling, although they say Jeb deserves most of the credit for that. And then there would be the blatant looting of banks during the S&L fire sales in the 1980s, although his father deserves most of the credit for that.
The most frequent criminal activity of George W. Bush, of course, would be obstruction of justice, given the people he has hired and the laws he has abrogated to further the criminal activities of his father and his friends. Are you listening, Kenny Boy? And of course, the crime we're really trying to pin on him, other than treason for his willful destruction of the Constitution, would be mass murder, both for presiding over the inside job on 9/11 and for the needless invasion of Afghanistan, just to make his pipeline plan and drug smuggling work. New charges will doubtless be available after he starts using up more military ordnance on Iraq. And who knows? The sky's the limit for this guy, truly the most evil American president ever.
And worse, it's not only the president who - if the world were a just and honest place - should be indicted for mass murder and treason, but a MAJORITY of the U.S. Congress, too, who has voted for his totalitarian initiatives ... let's just say anybody who took a contribution from Enron should now be in jail.
And right now the United States is making war, right in front of our noses, in more than a dozen countries, and on the wrong side of honor and justice - against the rights of the people - in every single case. Land of the free and the home of the brave? Shit! Land of the duped and home of the chickenshit chickenhawks!
The big one is not really Afghanistan or Iraq - it's Colombia, where rapidly increasing numbers of U.S. troops are preparing for action next door in Venezuela, but also in Ecuador, Peru and Brazil, all countries in which people-power movements have broken out.
The United States, of course, has always been at war in Central America, maintaining murderous dictatorships in Guatemala, Hondurus, Nicaragua and El Salvador, where ordinary people have no chance of living decent lives. And of course you know about the continuing activities in Indonesia and the Philippines (the latter a country in which we have conducted covert operations for more than 100 years, by the way).
The farcical situation continues in the Middle East, where Nazi Eretz Israel continues its obliteration of Palestinian babies and old women " the U.S. newspapers reverse the nomenclature because they are owned by either Jews or Zionists: it's really Jewish terrorists and Palestinian freedom fighters, not the other way around, and has been so since 1948 (if not before), when the Jews first started killing the natives, stealing their land, and then changing the names of the villages, hoping no one would notice what they were doing.
And Iraq. What a horrible joke. There was no legitimate reason for the first Gulf War and there is even less justification for this one, except that Bush wants to steal their oil and the sleeping American populace, further anesthetized by the CNN/Fox daily parade of lies called "Showdown with Iraq", seems reluctant to stand in the way of this latest chapter of Christian crusade against the heathens.
That there is no evidence against Iraq is clearly reflected in Bush's attempt to come up with some new trumped up charge at least once a week. War by propaganda. America does not now nor has it ever cared who it kills, and that is the one big horror that Americans refuse to face, why the Bush cabal, and the Clinton cabal before it, get away with what they do, which is killing innocent people for profit, that's what America has always done, since the days of killing 60 million Indians.
That's what America does: it kills innocent people for money.
So ... you won't read that in most newspapers but I do hear it talked about frequently on the web, among my friends, George in Switzerland, Jeanne in Poland, Steen in Denmark, Big Bob in Sweden, Jack Riddler in Berlin, Tim in Ireland, Jared at the Hague, Rick in Azerbaijan, Zsolt in Budapest, Al in North Dakota, Rick in Arkansas, Mary in Tallahassee, Helen and Judith in New Hampshire, Dick in Yakima, Ken in Phoenix, David in Portland, Will in Vancouver, Alistair in New Zealand ... I know of hundreds and they all know of thousands and probably they all know of millions who are constantly talking about that what you read in the big newspapers are lies - that our freedom is being stolen by bankers, arms makers and politicians who would just as soon murder their own children (ritually murder, for you Bohemian Grove fans out there) as let an opportunity slip by to make a buck.
The group I know on the Internet realizes that the U.S. government sends troops to Colombia ostensibly to fight the war on drugs, but the real purpose of this effort is to ASSURE THE FLOW of drugs, not to eradicate the crop, because the feds are simply making way too much money on this crop to ever want to destroy it. The deals in Kosovo, Macedonia, the Stans and to some extent Iraq are also about this. My group knows this. The big newspapers write little about it.
The group I talk with every realizes pretty much as a group that the last U.S. election was totally fixed - that democracy is dead in the United States - because of the electronic voting machines that can be manipulated both before and after the fact - and also, I think, during - mean that anyone who was declared the winner in any given election last month (are you listening, Norm Coleman?) did not necessarily win that election, but there is no way to check. This goes hand-in-hand with the Patriot Act and Homeland Security Department " totally fake democracy all around. That the media and Congress approve of these measures simply means these are people who should not be listened to, never mind voted for.
People talking on the web know you shouldn't ever take a government immunization and that they real reason for them is to make lots of money for some pharmaceutical giant. We also realize that there probably is no new big medical problem today that was not developed in some black budget government lab.
So each morning, we rise before dawn, turn on our computers, and see what stories our friends and the new day will bring. Later that night, we in the new resistance still toil in front our screens, bleary-eyed, to squeeze out one more message to our friends about some organized peace activities or consumer medical alert or to beware of some new scam invented by some government PR criminal. If you have any feelings about the need for freedom and the ability to say whatever you want, we'd like you to join the new resistance. But you're going to have to have a computer.
It is the way of the real world now. The real people are on the Internet, trying to let others know about the lethal lies that are being foisted upon us at every turn. The fake people are sending press releases to totally cynical and unreliable newspapers, urging others to support the War on Terror, without really realizing (or worse, perhaps they do!) that the war on terror is really a war on freedom, perhaps their very own.
John Kaminski is a writer who lives in Florida and spends much way too much time online.
Posted by andy @ 12/16/2002 03:18 PM EST
Andy
The term Semper Fidelis" is Latin for "Always Faithful." somthing in which you traitorous sons of bitches no nothing of.
Known Speller
I do admit to mispelling my name I was so damn excited to the thoughts of the head sheep "voxfux" on the lamb pardon the pun that I couldn't type fast enough.
Posted by Unknown Soldier @ 12/16/2002 03:55 PM EST
what about being 'always faithful' to the constitution, which is being dismembered as we speak by the bush administration. he wants an orwellian world of total control, resminiscent of the book '1984'. i wonder what your faith will be like when you actually realize you have no choices. perhaps you will prefer it, then you won't ever have to use the muscles of your brain.
Posted by poupee_des_bois @ 12/16/2002 04:32 PM EST
Hey Unblown Soldier, I know what Semper'ing is and I also know what simpering is, and I associate you with the latter.
And don't worry about your spelling, I have no issue with that, it's all the simple stuff you miss, I DO have an issue with that. Read the article above your last sticky-fingered missive, and you'll see REAL traitors described, and there are thousands upon thousands of them, and when they say jump, brainwashed morons like the Simper Fido brigade do their murdering for them.
PS
Your lamb joke was pretty good, keep it up. We need all the laughs we can get with unfunny comedians like Shrub and Bad Blair Day running the show.
Posted by andy @ 12/16/2002 04:41 PM EST
If anything BUSH is the traitor. He 100% violated his constitutional oath of office by passing unconstitutional laws.
That country club- pin headed A.W.O.L
daddy's boy nixed on his military service obligation IN CASE YOU FORGOT.
As far as I can tell, you SUUUURE don't sound like a military serviceman to me. You sound a lot more like the chicken hawks that want to send enlisted men to die just so fatcats can profit.
REAL Patriots ask questions.
Dissent is patriotic. It's all American.
Southern Watch/Allied Force vet.
USN
Posted by Mech @ 12/16/2002 04:45 PM EST
Hi vox, where ever you are--many people are concerned about you-
i also e-mailed david icke last nite, and webmaster of what used to be his mirror site until it was knocked down (am not giving his name as he no longerposts his e-mail address on his site)--received reurn e-mail from the latter this am that he had just received e-mail from voxnyc and would get back to me when he found out what was going on--just got home , and no e-mail, but sometimes mine get lost--but will post (w/his permission) when i hear from him.
i, too, have had fearful thoughts about posting comments on this site --vox writes very dramatically and assumed that this site is being observed by our intelligence agencies--and have often wished that i had the temperament of a couch potato and did not care about what is going on and did not feel this imperative to speak my truths--but i do care, because i do love my country and the noble principles on which the U.S.A. was founded--even if they have been imperfectly manifested, and often
trodden underfoot by various administrations, and not properly cherished and supported by we the people--freedom of speech and of the press are two of our constitutionally guaranteed liberties which i most care about, and which other countries have admired and emulated--and so, even though sometimes i wish i could be silent, feel it my duty as a citizen of our country to speak out--including this comment, when i'm tired after a hard day at work.
Unknown Soldier--i think you must care about our country also--Semper Fidelis an honorable motto--but i thought it meant fidelity to our Constitution and Bill of Rights--our Presidents come and go, but our principles of Freedom are meant to be the enduring bedrock of our nation. And even if vox didn't post all your comments, you have been able to exercise your right of free speech at least sometimes on his site. When you and he were going at it, i thought sometimes that probably you both care for our country in the same way, but are looking at it differently.
Peace and Freedom, kathleen
Posted by kathleen beatty @ 12/16/2002 04:57 PM EST
kathleen: well said... RE david icke - i also sent a message and received no reply, but i think it was a non-functioning email, even though i didn't receive any notification to that effect. i also sent a letter to rense -- once again, no reply. i wrote to the ACLU and Indy News in NY. Nothing. ... please let us know if you hear something.
i hope EVERYONE HERE takes the initiative to make calls, appearances, send mail to get to the bottom of this and help Vox.
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/16/2002 06:36 PM EST
re to those who think vox is a govt plant or group... i'm in ny and know people who have talked to him. he spoke some time ago of fears that he would be assassinated by cia or some such agency, please everybody here call nyaclu or siegel or maybe even kuby, we have to support our fellow american
Posted by diogenes @ 12/16/2002 07:07 PM EST
I'm kinda 'new' to looking at this site, although I have made a few posts. I had the impression that some of you actually KNEW him in person, not just on the internet. I seem to recall some posts that support this idea - one post especially. If any of you know who he his, can't you just call or go over there????
Posted by Suzette @ 12/16/2002 07:18 PM EST
Political Essayist Voxfux - A Massive Manhunt (english)
Joan Bern, NF News 5:34pm Mon Dec 16 '02 (Modified on 7:10pm Mon Dec 16 '02)
article#223498
At 10AM on Friday the 13th, A combined task force from the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, and Major Crimes Unit raided a Long Island home believed to be that of the political essayist who writes under the pen name Voxfux.
There were simultaneous raids at several locations throughout New York City and Brooklyn.
Voxfux is represented by Norman Seigal (From NYCLU). The civil rights lawyer Ron Cuby is also involved in the discussions.
At 10AM on Friday the 13th, A combined task force from the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, and Major Crimes Unit raided a Long Island home believed to be that of the political essayist who writes under the pen name Voxfux.
There were simultaneous raids at several locations throughout New York City and Brooklyn.
Voxfux is represented by Norman Seigal (From NYCLU). The civil rights lawyer Ron Cuby is also involved in the discussions.
Later in the day Vox was interviewed at an undisclosed location with Amy Goodman from the radio program Democracy Now.
There has been no formal charges presented so far. Neighbors were issued orders to contact the authorities upon seeing or hearing from the man believed to be behind the caustic pen.
A neighbor, who wished to remain anonymous for fear of violating any orders of the combined law enforcement effort, spoke praises of her neighbor, "There's no way he's a terrorist, he's a sweetheart, I don't believe it for one minute. I've known him for seventeen years. He's an artist and a writer. This is rediculous."
The case has the potential to be a lightening rod for civil libertarians, coming just days after the passage of the controversial Homeland Security Act.
Posted by from the NYC Newswire @ 12/16/2002 07:29 PM EST
creepy whos next? jeff rense, david icke, art bell or me and you ?.....i love king shrub and the nwo
Posted by love against the machine @ 12/16/2002 08:14 PM EST
thanks for the update from NIYC Newswire; at least it's something.
Posted by thanks @ 12/16/2002 08:55 PM EST
Who is currently editing this site?
Posted by Mithra @ 12/16/2002 09:51 PM EST
Hmm this is bad news. Do hope we can hear from vox again. Also anybody happen to catch his recent article regarding the bush crime family? (see the right to the above) ... Hey NYC newswire do you have a link to the newspapers site / article? Trying to verify that myself to confirm what I fear may be the situation unfolding.
Posted by Xaos @ 12/16/2002 10:26 PM EST
Just found this site. Would someone say where to send money for Voxdefense?
Posted by bothfistsraised @ 12/17/2002 03:18 AM EST
Just found this site. Would someone say where to send money for Voxdefense?
Posted by bothfistsraised @ 12/17/2002 03:19 AM EST
to vox's arresters:
THERE ARE THOUSANDS MORE OF US! THOUSANDS MORE WEBSITES JUST LIKE HIS! YOU WILL NOT ARREST US ALL! YOU MUST TAKE OUR OPINION INTO ACCOUNT!
MAKE VOX A MARTYR, PLEASE!!!
Posted by flow @ 12/17/2002 04:09 AM EST
btw, there's something wrong with Michael Ruppert too. some really weird articles on his website, totally out of touch with his normal stance...
they're really going after us now. fuck them. I'ld rather die than lie.
Posted by kris @ 12/17/2002 06:06 AM EST
we must stand by our convictions, but be very skillful in our approach. emotions have their place, but no need to wallow in them.
Posted by poupee des bois @ 12/17/2002 07:11 AM EST
Can anyone find a transcript of vox's interview on "Democracy Now"? That'd shed some light on all of this.
It's pretty wierd *knowing* (in an internet fashion) someone who is apparantly being pursued by authorities simply for writing essays in America. It's got to be the "Bush should be killed" article. Not that I would expect the authorities to understand the difference, but that article was clearly a logic exercise (*If* that's Bush's policy, *then* he must be killed), and not an overt threat to the President. The multiple raids by the Secret Service, CIA, FBI, and "Major Crimes Unit" (major crime?!!?) would suggest they didn't *get it*.
Good luck, vox. We'll be watching this story.
Posted by Question @ 12/17/2002 07:54 AM EST
i wrote to jeff rense's program AGAIN today with an update that it is official that Vox is being sought after in a manhunt by the FBI and CIA. i told them i don't understand why they wouldn't be interested in this piece, since vox is a writer and is merely expressing his constitional write to express his opinions. i told them they have so many 'fluff'pieces - and this is REAL news and could make a difference if they publish it at their site.
none of the other people i have contacted at other similar sites have replied, either. this is ridiculous. it seems to me they're as bad as mainstream media.
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/17/2002 08:00 AM EST
Come to think of it Joe Vialls has been pretty quiet for over a week, he normally posts to his site once a week but there's been nothing new on there for ages...
Vialls home page:
http://geocities.com/vialls/index.html
Posted by ewar @ 12/17/2002 10:43 AM EST
hm one has to ask oneself why they leave the site up...?
Posted by loner @ 12/17/2002 01:06 PM EST
i suggest we continue using it for what vox meant it for: the flow of uncencored info. here's some good news from hell just got a new occupant on dec 9 ted shackley croaked ridding the world of one of its most malignant and evil denizens, here's the article:
Dead Spooks Don't Lie(And Don't Deal Drugs Either)
by CONSPIRACY PLANET
Dead Spooks Don't Lie(And Don't Deal Drugs Either) War criminal and notorious CIA klller/ drug trafficker Ted Shackley, known as 'The Blond Ghost, died on December 9, 2002.
The Ultimate Cold War Apparatchik, Ted Shackley was the notorious Director of 'Operation Phoenix' in Laos and Viet Nam, and thus responsible for a slaughter which claimed the lives of over 40,000 Vietnamese civilians under the guise of neutralizing communist sympathizers.
According to many credible reports, Shackley was involved in covert and illicit drug trafficking and weapons sales as late as the
notorious Iran-Contra scandal, in which a huge quantity of weapons fell into terrorist hands.
He took part in a scandalous affair in which Libyan terrorists under Muammar Quadaffi received weaponry and military training from the US.
Behind the scenes, he was one of the most influential members of the CIA from the 1960s through the 1980s, being the Deputy Director to CIA DIrector George Herbert Walker Bush.
Shackley was also the author of "The Third Option" (Dell Publishing), a guide for training indigenous homegrown terrorist groups in foreign lands, a failed and flawed policy which can be held responsible for the state of the world today.
An excellent analysis of Shackley's role in geo-politics and the rise of American Empire is included in the following excerpt from David Hoffman's "The Oklahoma City Bombing" --
Or consider the words of Lt. Col. Bo Gritz, former commander of the Special Forces in Latin America and the most decorated soldier in Vietnam. Gritz made a trip to the Golden Triangle in 1983 to search for American POWs, a mission that was ultimately stonewalled. Gritz believes the POWs are being used as drug mules, and the government doesn't want them returned alive, for fear they would expose the Octopus.
As Gritz said: "[They] would not want the American POWs to come home. Because when they do, there will be an investigation as to why they were abandoned. At that time we will uncover this secret organization and its illicit drug money and financing. The Secret Team would then be exposed."[1122]
As Gritz later wrote in Called to Serve:
If Richard Armitage was, as Khun Sa avowed, a major participant in parallel government drug trafficking, then it explained why our efforts to rescue POWs had been inexplicably foiled, time after time... If it was true, Richard Armitage would be the last man in the world who would desire to see prisoners of war come home alive.[1123]
As "Special Consultant to the Pentagon on the MIAs," in Bangkok in 1975, Armitage reportedly spent more time repatriating opium profits then recovering POWs. In 1976, when Khun Sa was still selling heroin to CIA officials, the head of the CIA was none other than George Bush.[1124]
Former presidential candidate H. Ross Perot, who was appointed presidential investigator for POW/MIA affairs, came upon the same information, and was warned by former Defense Secretary Frank Carlucci to stop pursuing the connections to Armitage. As he sadly explained to a group of POW/MIA families in 1987: "I have been instructed to cease and desist."[1125]
Ironically, between 1987 and 1991, Vice-President Bush served as head of the South Florida Drug Task Force, and later as chair of the National Narcotics Interdiction System, both set up to "stem" the flow of drugs into the U.S. While Bush was drug czar, the volume of cocaine smuggled into the U.S. tripled.[1126]
Celerino "Cele" Castillo, the DEA's head agent in El Salvador and Guatemala from 1985 to 1991, told reporters and Senate investigators of numerous known drug traffickers who used hangers controlled by Oliver North and the CIA in El Salvador's Ilopango military airbase. When Castillo naively tried to warn Bush at a U.S. embassy party in Guatemala, Bush "just shook my hand, smiled and walked away…"[1127]
"By the end of 1988," added Castillo, "I realized how hopelessly tangled the DEA, the CIA, and every other U.S. entity in Central America had become with the criminals. The connections boggled my mind."[1128]
"The CIA — they're making deals with the Devil," adds Mike Levine. "Unfortunately, the Devil is smarter than they are."[1129]
Some of those devils, like Monzer al-Kassar — "business partner" of Richard Secord and Oliver North — would be utilized to do the Octopus's dirty work.
Another name Khun Sa mentioned repeatedly was Ted Shackley.[1130] A long-time CIA player, Theodore G. Shackley (known as "The Blond Ghost") began his Agency career as CIA Station Chief in Miami, where he directed the CIA's JM/WAVE Operation, a post-Bay of Pigs attempt to assassinate Fidel Castro and wreck havoc within that sovereign nation. Utilizing Cuban expatriates, the CIA conducted hundreds of sabotage raids against Cuba in direct violation of the U.S. Neutrality Act. Shackley also worked in close partnership with Mob figures John Roselli, Sam Giancana, and Santos Trafficante.[1131]
While the operation was shut down in 1965, due mainly to revelations of organized crime connections and drug smuggling, many of the participants remained in Miami, continuing their illegal activities.
Later, as Station Chief of Laos, Shackley directed Major General Richard Secord's air wing in tactical raids against the Communist Pathet Lao, who happened to be General Vang Pao's main competition in the opium trade. By keeping the Pathet Lao busy with the help of the CIA and the American military, Pao's Hmong tribesmen were able to become the region's largest heroin producers.[1132]
Of course, Shackley, his deputy Tom Clines (who supervised the air base in Long Tieng), and their colleagues in CIA front companies like Air America were only too happy to help, smuggling heroin to the U.S. in the gutted bodies of dead GIs (with the assistance of their old Mob buddy Santos Trafficante, who had helped form their ZR/RIFLE assassination team, and Vietnamese Air Force General Nguyen Cao Ky), and laundering the profits in the Nugan-Hand bank. As a 1983 Wall Street Journal article stated:
Investigations following Mr. Nugan's death and the failure of the bank revealed widespread dealings by Nugan-Hand with international heroin syndicates, and evidence of massive fraud against U.S. and foreign citizens. Many retired high-ranking Pentagon and CIA officials were executives of or consultants to Nugan-Hand.[1133][1134]*
Shackley, along with Nugan-Hand's attorney — former CIA Director William Colby — directed the infamous "Phoenix Program," a largely successful attempt to "neutralize" by torture and murder approximately 40,000 Vietnamese civilians suspected of being Viet Cong sympathizers. One Phoenix operative, testifying before Congress, stated that Phoenix was "a sterile, depersonalized murder program… it was completely indiscriminate." The assassinations would continue in Nicaragua under the code-name "Operation Pegasus."[1135][1136]
After becoming the head of the CIA's Western Hemisphere operations (Latin American Division) in 1972, Shackley supervised the overthrow of the Chilean government ("Operation Track II") by murdering democratically elected President Salvador Allende. With the backing of the CIA under Shackley, the military led a violent coup by Right-wing General Augusto Pinochet, which resulted in the abolishment of the Constitution, the closing of all newspapers save for two Right-wing dailies, the outlawing of trade unions, the suppression of all political parties, and the arrest, torture, and execution of thousands.[1137]
After a brief stint as Director of the Far East Division, Shackley directed CIA agent Edwin Wilson in training the Shah of Iran's notorious secret police, the Savak, who routinely tortured and murdered the Shah's opponents. Later Shackley would assist more directly in these efforts.[1138]
In 1975, Shackley became Associate Director in the Directorate of Operations, which put him in charge of Covert-Operations, Counter-Intelligence, and ironically, Counter-Narcotics, all under the command of George Herbert Walker Bush.
These associations naturally led to Shackley playing a role in the formation of the "Secret Team," (to coin a phrase invented by Col. L. Fletcher Prouty) the covert and illegal enterprise that was the driving force behind the Iran-Contra operation. Donald Gregg, one of Shackley's subordinates during his Saigon tenure, would later become Assistant National Security Advisor during Iran-Contra, reporting directly to Vice-President Bush.
It was against this backdrop that Shackley served as a "consultant" to players such as Bush, Secord, North, and Casey in their illegal and bloody guns-for-drugs network that resulted in tens of thousands of deaths and the flooding of our streets with tons of drugs.
As Wall Street Journal reporter Jonathan Kwitny writes about Ted Shackley in his book, The Crimes of Patriots:
Looking at the list of disasters Shackley has presided over during his career, one might even conclude that on the day the CIA hired Shackley it might have done better hiring a KGB agent; a Soviet mole probably could not have done as much damage to the national security of the United States with all his wile as Shackley did with the most patriotic of intentions.
Between Shackley's Cuban and Indochinese campaigns, more dope dealers were probably put onto the payroll of the United States Government, and protected and encouraged in their activities, than if the government had simply gone out and hired the Mafia — which, in the case of the Cuban campaign, it did.
CIA Director Admiral Stansfield Turner forced Shackley to resign from the Agency in 1979, due to his "unauthorized" dealings with rogue agent Edwin Wilson, who was selling plastic explosives to Libya (with Shackley's approval). Had he not left, Shackley would likely have become head of the Agency.[1139]
George Bush, who headed the Agency in 1976, strongly desired to continue in that post. He was not reappointed when Jimmy Carter took office.[1140]*
Moreover, Turner, who had little faith in HUMNIT (Human Intelligence) sources, decided to reshape the CIA along more advanced technological lines. As a result of Turner's infamous "Halloween Massacre," the CIA cut its field agents from several thousand to just over 300. As President Jimmy Carter would later state, "We were aware that some of the unqualified and incompetent personnel whom he discharged were deeply resentful."[1141]
The old hands of the Agency, who formerly had at their disposal almost unlimited "Black Budget" funds for covert operations, were suddenly forced into retirement, or forced into lockstep with Turner's new guidelines.
Although CIA Director William Casey hired 2,000 new covert operators in 1980, many CIA critics felt Turner's actions had already caused the secret cells of the good-old-boy networks to bury themselves — and their illegal activities — even deeper.
It is this element, birthed in the hysteria of the Cold War, legitimized by the paranoia of the National Security state, and nurtured by the politics of greed, that has buried itself in the core of American politics.
As long-time Army Criminal Investigator Gene Wheaton defines it: "An elite, very clandestine, very covert group within the intelligence community…. The CIA and DIA is just the lightening rod for the people who really control things."
Those who could accept the idea of government foreknowledge of the Oklahoma City bombing would be hard-pressed to accept the notion that certain factions within the government might have orchestrated the bombing itself. Those who have a difficult time accepting this are stymied by what they perceive as "government."
As Wheaton explains, "The government is just a bunch of monuments, office buildings, computers, and desks. They don't see the crazies in the government — the little conspiratorial cliques within the government."[1142]
These little conspiratorial cliques — the same players that Shackley intersects with, going back to Cuba, Laos, Afghanistan and Nicaragua — have been involved for decades in everything from drug and gun-running, to assassinations, covert warfare, and outright terrorism. It is a terrorism that increasingly has no particular face, no ideological credo, no political goal. It is a terrorism motivated by power and greed.[1143]
By no means the lone man behind the curtain, Ted Shackley represents one of the more visible of this lexicon of covert operators upon whom the powers that be depend on for their endless supply of "black ops" and dirty tricks. Perhaps this is how Shackley knows, or seems to know, the complex truth behind Oklahoma City. It is a truth that remains hidden behind a sophisticated labyrinth of covert operatives, all of whom converge at similar times and places. They are, as David Corn writes, "the little faceless gray men we never see and seldom hear about." Those we call the "Shadow Government," the "Parallel Government," the "Enterprise," the "Octopus," or a half-a-dozen other names, are carefully hidden behind an endless roster of official titles and duties, and a plethora of familiar-sounding organizations and institutions.
These same faceless little gray men would pop up in the Oklahoma City bombing conspiracy like interminable weeds between the cracks of the pavement. From the Bay of Pigs to Iran-Contra to Oklahoma City, the names, faces, and players would coalesce for a brief moment in time into an indistinguishable menagerie of politicos and spooks, terrorists and assassins — to commit their terrible deed, then fade into the seamless world were little distinction is made between assets and criminals.[1144]
Ted Shackley was officially forced to resign from the CIA due to his dealings with friend and renegade agent Edwin Wilson. Wilson and former CIA employee Frank Terpil had smuggled two tons of C-4 to Libya, and at the behest of Shackley, had set up terrorist training camps there utilizing Green Berets led to believe they were working for the Agency. The ostensible purpose of this maneuver was to permit the CIA to gather information on Soviet and Libyan weapons and defense capabilities, and to learn the identities of foreign nationals being trained for guerrilla warfare. Upon obtaining their passports and travel plans, Shackley would alert their home country's secret police, who would then assassinate them upon their return.[1145]
While Wilson was sentenced to a long prison term, Terpil fled to Cuba, and has since been involved in numerous dealings with the PLO and other terrorists, supplying them with sophisticated assassination weapons, detonators, and communication systems.[1146]
Terpil also supplied torture devices to Ugandan Dictator Idi Amin, who used a bomb supplied by Terpil to assassinate Kenyan cabinet member Bruce McKenzie.[1147]*
One month later, Terpil was implicated in the murder of three executives of the IBEX corporation — a high-technology company that was doing business with the Savak. John Harper, IBEX's former director of security, said that while in Tripoli, he saw a mock-up of the ambush site at the training facility that Terpil and Wilson had set up.[1148]†
Readers will recall this is the same Frank Terpil that was seen by Cary Gagan in Mexico City with Omar (Sam Khalid?), six months before the Oklahoma City bombing. "I saw him down in Mexico," recalled Gagan, "in November of '94, in Mexico City… with Omar."
Gagan said he and Omar met Terpil at the Hotel Maria Isabelle in the Zona Rosa district. Gagan didn't know who Terpil was at the time, but described him as a fat, balding, 60ish fellow, who was "terribly dressed." In other words — Frank Terpil.
"I heard the name because I knew Wilson's name from the Florence Federal Penitentiary in Colorado." Gagan said that one of his intelligence contacts, a man named Daniel, told him about Terpil. "The conversation came up in reference to the Gander, Newfoundland crash," said Gagan.
Was Terpil in Mexico to supply explosives to Omar? While Gagan wasn't privy to the conversation, he believes that was the purpose of the meeting.
When Wilson and Terpil were selling arms and explosives to Libya, they were reporting to none other than Ted Shackley. Kwitny notes that Wilson and Terpil were hiring anti-Castro Cubans from Shackley's old JM/WAVE program [and Green Berets] to assassinate President Qaddafi's political opponents abroad:
Some U.S. Army men were literally lured away from the doorway of Fort Bragg, their North Carolina training post. The GIs were given every reason to believe that the operation summoning them was being carried out with the full backing of the CIA.…[1149]
Readers will also recall that while Timothy McVeigh was still in the Army, he wrote his sister a letter telling her that he had been picked for a Special Forces (Green Beret) Covert Tactical Unit (CTU) that was involved in illegal activities. These illegal activities included "protecting drug shipments, eliminating the [Octopus's drug] competition, and population control."
This is exactly what Shackley, Clines, and Secord did in Laos — assassinating and bombing Vang Pao's opium competition out of existence.
Could this CTU McVeigh claims he was recruited for be a latter-day version of Shackley's assassins? Former federal grand juror Hoppy Heidelberg said McVeigh's letter indicates that he turned them down, while former FBI SAC Ted Gundersen claims McVeigh actually worked for the group for a while, then became disenchanted.[1150]
If McVeigh had actually been recruited for such a group, the question arises of what cover-story he was given. As discussed, it is highly likely he was told that he was on an important mission — to infiltrate a terrorist organization and prevent a bombing. Considering McVeigh's background and character, it is unlikely he is a terrorist who set out to murder 169 innocent people.
Also recall that McVeigh was seen with Hussain al-Hussaini. The Iraqis would provide a convincing and plausible excuse if McVeigh was led to believe he was part of a sting operation: "Son, you were a hero in the Gulf War. Your country needs you now in the fight against terrorism." It is a story a young, impressionable man like McVeigh would fall for.
It is also possible that McVeigh was sheep-dipped as disgruntled ex-GI for infiltration into the neo-Nazi community, which would provide a doorway into the bombing conspiracy through places like Elohim City.
Or perhaps, as a result of his becoming "disenchanted" and "leaving" the CTU, he became targeted for "termination," and was set up as a fall-guy. Such is standard operating procedure for those who attempt to leave the world of covert operations.
Either way, the fact that there appeared to be two "Timothy McVeighs," just as there were two Oswalds, would suggest a sophisticated intelligence operation, one that was designed to put McVeigh in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Like Oswald, McVeigh probably believed himself to be a government agent, part of a secret project. Like Oswald, McVeigh was not told what the plan really involved, and was trapped, framed, and made a patsy.
This goes a long way towards explaining why an armed McVeigh didn't shoot and kill Officer Charles Hanger when he was stopped on the Interstate after the bombing. Why would a man who had just killed 169 men, women, and children balk at killing a cop (a member of the system that McVeigh allegedly hated) on a lonely stretch of highway? The only possible answer is that McVeigh believed he was part of a sting operation — a government asset — and would be protected.
Whatever McVeigh's actual purpose and intent, it is curious, to say the least, that Ted Shackley would tell D'Ferdinand Carone that the perpetrator of the bombing was somebody from here.
How did he know?
Roger Moore, the mysterious gun dealer whom the government claimed McVeigh and Nichols robbed to "finance" the bombing, ran a company next to Bahia Mar Marina in South Florida (a popular hang-out for the Iran-Contra crowd), which manufactured high-speed boats. The boats — sold through Intercontinental Industries of Costa Rica (an Ollie North "cut-out") — were used to mine Nicaragua's harbors in "Operation Cordova Harbor."[1151]
One source I spoke to said Moore had direct contact with Oliver North. "I don't know who his [Moore's] contact was on Iran-Contra beyond Don Aranow. I know he had access and would talk directly to Oliver North. He knew Felix Rodriquez pretty well, he knew Nester Sanchez, Manny Diaz, all those guys around Jeb [Bush] pretty well."
This source also claimed that Moore was a "paymaster" for Tom Posey's Civilian Military Assistance (CMA) — the covert paramilitary operation that served as the primary nexus for arming the Contras.
A retired CIA/DIA agent I spoke to in Arkansas, said "[Moore] was an Agency contractor."
Other sources say Moore was an informant for the FBI. He allegedly tried to sell heavy weapons to the Militia of Montana (MOM) as part of an FBI sting operation. A call to MOM indicated that Moore had indeed stopped by for a friendly chat. He told Randy Trochmann, one of MOM's leaders, that he was traveling the country meeting with militia groups in an attempt to verify black helicopter sightings and rumors of UN troop movements. This seems a peculiar pastime for a man who worked for a network of spooks devoted to bypassing and subverting the Constitution.[1152]*
What is also peculiar is a letter written by Moore to McVeigh in early 1995. Introduced at the trial of Terry Nichols, the letter, speaks of "a plan… to bring the country down and have a few more things happen."[1153]
Robert "Bud" McFarlane went on to form his own consulting firm, and joined the board of American Equity Investors (AEI), founded by Prescott Bush. AEI's board of directors reads like a Who's Who of the spook world, including former CIA officials George Clairmont and Howard Hebert, and CIA lawyer Mitch Rogovin, who was George Bush's legal counsel when he was Director of the Agency.[1154]
AEI invested in a Tulsa, Oklahoma company: Hawkins Oil and Gas, from 1988 to 1991. McFarlane was a "consultant" for Hawkins and several other companies on the Ech power project in Pakistan, which required frequent trips to that country.[1155] This was during the tail end of the largest covert operation the U.S. ever conducted — the arming of the Mujahadeen, who trained in Pakistan. McFarlane sat on the "208 Committee," who's job it was to procure weapons for the Mujahadeen, and arms contracts for the Pakistani government.
Recall that Richard Armitage, who was the contact for Fazoe Haq, governor of the Northwest Frontier Province, also sat on the "208 Committee." As Alfred A. McCoy writes in The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia:
It's known that the CIA paid the Afghan guerrillas, who were based in Pakistan, through BCCI.… That the Pakistan military were in fact banking their drug profits, moving their drug profits from the consuming country back to Pakistan though BCCI. In fact the boom in the Pakistan drug trade was financed by BCCI.…
BCCI also served as a conduit for the Iran-Contra operation, largely through Gaith Pharon, former head of Saudi Intelligence, who operated out of Islamabad, Pakistan. The Saudis played a major role in funding the Mujahadeen and [via the request of Secord and McFarlane] the Contras.
McFarlane — who former Mossad official Ari Ben Menashe claims is a Mossad asset — worked with the president of Hawkins' International Division, Mujeeb Rehman Cheema, on the Ech project. Was Hani Kamal's supposed statement that Khalid was connected to the Mossad accurate? A prominent Muslim community leader, Cheema claims he does not know Sam Khalid.[1156]
Interestingly, Gagan said that at one point, Terry Nichols rendezvoused with his Middle Eastern friends at the Islamic society of Nevada. Cheema is chairman of the Islamic Society of Tulsa. Is there a connection? And what of Cheema's links to McFarlane? Was McFarlane using Hawkins as a front for CIA activities in Pakistan?
It is perhaps prophetic that many of the terrorists implicated in the major bombings of the last decade attended the terrorist conference held in the Northwest Frontier Province town of Konli, Pakistan in July of 1996. As noted, Osama bin Ladin, a Saudi who funded the Mujahadeen and was implicated in the Riyadh and Dhahran bombings, (a close associate of Sheik Abdel Omar Rahman, implicated in the World Trade Center bombing), Ahmed Jibril (who bombed Pan Am 103), and senior representatives of Iranian and Pakistani intelligence, and Hamas, HizbAllah, and other groups attended the conference.[1157]
Stephen Jones claimed he had learned through the Saudi Arabian Intelligence Service that Iraq had hired seven Pakistani mercenaries — Mujahadeen veterans — to bomb targets in the U.S., one of which was the Alfred P. Murrah Building.[1158]
Just who were these "Pakistani mercenaries," and were they really working for Iraq?
Posted by loner @ 12/17/2002 01:14 PM EST
maybe the reason they are leaving this site up is because they want to gauge our responses, as well as avoid a bigger uproar. obviously, if the site was down, more people would be inquiring. right now, it kind of doesn't feel real?
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/17/2002 01:37 PM EST
keep on keepin on...
Posted by loner @ 12/17/2002 02:04 PM EST
To all Americans: Get your guns.
Posted by Loblack @ 12/17/2002 02:31 PM EST
Okay, let's hit'em where it hurts: the truth about bush & 9/11. Add these to your bookmarks:
And record, spread and make webapges of these AUDIO interviews on 9/11:
http://www.crncast.com/asxautomagic.asp?ArchiveDate=10-30-02
(David Icke)
http://24.87.149.241/fiasco/black/black51a.ram
(John Judge)
For background on who's doing this:
The longer Vox, Mike Ruppert, Joe Vialls and other missing web authors stay away, the greater our rage will become.
Posted by fritzlang @ 12/17/2002 02:38 PM EST
Okay, let's hit'em where it hurts: the truth about bush & 9/11. Add these to your bookmarks:
And record, spread and make webapges of these AUDIO interviews on 9/11:
http://www.crncast.com/asxautomagic.asp?ArchiveDate=10-30-02
(David Icke)
http://24.87.149.241/fiasco/black/black51a.ram
(John Judge)
For background on who's doing this:
The longer Vox, Mike Ruppert, Joe Vialls and other missing web authors stay away, the greater our rage will become.
Posted by fritzlang @ 12/17/2002 02:38 PM EST
Vox asked that the interview with Amy Goodman be witheld untill further notice. Cant wait to hear whats in that one. Things are getting very interesting.
Posted by sandman420 @ 12/17/2002 03:09 PM EST
You want to hit them where it hurts? Stop giving them your damn money- ie taxes. Join the movement at We The People at
This man actually went to DC last year and went on a hunger strike untill he got an agreement from the gov to answer questions about the legality of the income tax. Needless to say they renegged on their pledge but thats just the beginning. If everyone hear got on board with this movement we could actually do something. Declare 9 on your W2s and quit filing. I leave you with some words from the leader of this movement Bob Shultz
Hanging By a Thread: Divinely Inspired Civil Government
We Must Not Acquiesce: It Would Be Un-American. It Would Be Un-Godly.
We Must Retain Our Money: It is The Only Remaining Non-Violent Option
No one should doubt the historical significance of November 14th. History will come to record that The Moment of Truth on the National Mall, culminating Freedom Drive 2002, marked the place and the moment in the 21st century when the People took a stand against governmental tyranny in America and began the process of restoring the Constitution of the United States of America to its rightful place.
Key to the restoration of our Constitution is the Peoples’ unalienable right to Petition for Redress of Grievances and our servant government’s obligation to respond.
As Bob Schulz detailed in his speech before the crowd that day, our Founding Fathers knew that if the People allowed the government to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to the People’s Petitions for Redress of Grievances it would be the final expression of tyranny and despotism in America, the beginning of the end of our Constitutional Republic with its system of "separate powers’ and checks and balances, the beginning of the end of the Great American Experiment -- government of, by and for the People , the beginning of the end of government based on the consent of the People, and the beginning of the end of the most wonderful and powerful expression of the Creator’s intent for civil government – popular sovereignty and constitutionally guaranteed individual, unalienable rights.
If the People rest satisfied, or apparently satisfied, without opposition and discontent, allowing the government to turn a deaf ear to the People’s intelligent and rational Petitions for Redress of Grievances, the People will, in effect, be turning their backs on the Creator and on humanity.
Must the People acquiesce? No, of course not. As a free People we were given the ultimate Power in our society. We just have to learn how to use it.
Read, learn and inwardly digest the divinely inspired words of the Founding Fathers: "If money is wanted by Rulers who have in any manner oppressed the People, they may retain it until their grievances are redressed, and thus peaceably procure relief, without trusting to despised petitions or disturbing the public tranquility."
The founding fathers could hardly have used words more clear when they declared, "the people … may retain [their money] until their grievances are [remedied]."
By these words, the founding fathers fully recognized and clearly stated: that the Right of Redress of Grievances includes the right of redress before payment of taxes, that this right of redress before taxes lies in the hands of the People and that this Right is the People’s non-violent, peaceful means to procuring a remedy to their grievances without having depend on -- or place their trust in -- the government’s willingness to respond to the People’s petitions and without having to resort to violence.
This very American Right of Redress of Grievances Before Taxes has always been deeply embedded in our law. The time has come to use it.
As Bob Schulz reported, citing historical documents from the Revolution, the only practical, peaceful and morally appropriate option available to the People, under our present circumstances, is to withhold the payment of taxes from the government. Without money, the government cannot continue to operate outside the boundaries the People have drawn around its power, i.e., it cannot continue its abuse of power.
On November 14, 2002 our government refused to respond to the proper and well- researched Petitions for Redress concerning grave matters of freedom and liberty. They chose the line of direction the People must now take. Our mission is now clear.
Since November 14, the We The People organization has been preparing THE PLAN for the People to engage the government using strategies and tactics we have not deployed to this point. The details of the elements of THE PLAN will be posted soon. Suffice it to say, we believe the only non-violent option available is for employees, employers and the self-employed across this nation to hold and keep in their possession money they would otherwise have turned over to the government.
Ironically, in the context of income taxes, and as the research of a growing body of credentialed professionals and researchers in the Tax Honesty Movement has conclusively established, federal tax laws do not apply to most Americans’ "income" and, in any event, cannot be enforced by the US government inside the fifty states for lack of bona fide federal legislative jurisdiction. So in effect, we will be issuing a call for massive "civil obedience", i.e., "Redress BEFORE Taxes", i.e., "No Answers, NO TAXES."
Posted by sandman420 @ 12/17/2002 03:16 PM EST
How many articles do you see on Rense that get hacked? Ive only seen a few. Well here is one that was. The best of the day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rense.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The New Resistance
By John Kaminski
skylax@comcast.net
12-16-2
Fingers of frost creep across our December windows as we fire up our computers long before dawn to check the latest atrocity from Washington, the latest affront to the honesty and dignity of the human race. I imagine that me and my circle of Internet friends must be somewhat like the French Resistance of its time, spreading the latest rumors of war and trying to debunk false charges of terror laid at our feet by men who pretend to be our leaders but who are really the stooges of a foreign power, an alien menace even, these soulless men who run the banks, keep us in chains, and obliterate our Constitution in the process.
Perhaps the Resistance analogy is a little overdrawn. I mean, we don't have Nazi stormtroopers bearing down on us with guns drawn ... yet. Although there was an incident in Eugene, Oregon the other day ....
The new Resistance is definitely online, checking out the latest tirade from a new cadre of great writers, great pursuers of liberty, Arundhati Roy in India, Chris Floyd in Moscow, Mike Ruppert in Los Angeles, Al Giordano in Caracas and voices from a thousand principled stops in between. The new Resistance is checking out Web radio - Jeff Rense, Alex Jones, Meria Heller and many others - because there you can hear what's actually happening, not what corporate banker radio would like you to believe is going on with fascist phonies like Rush Limbaugh and the prominent Moonie, Pat Robertson.
The new revolution is you and me, and is definitely not being reported in the newspapers, who keep telling us Bush's popularity is at an all-time high and give us not a whisper that the evil men in the White House who are allowed to keep their lucrative secrets by judges who rule against the people's right to know are the very same men who appointed those very same judges, a rancid closed circle of horror that lets the guilty rich go free and jails poor innocents without trial, without phone call, without hope.
Each day a new horror, stories eagerly passed around from computer to computer, from state to state and country to country. Just when we thought it would be hard to top the Wellstone incident for sheer horror - oh, the FAA can't figure out what happened; well, WE all instantly figured out what happened - along comes the Kissinger debacle. Henry Kissinger to ferret out what really happened on 9/11. Well, if my name isn't Ho Chi Minh! And just when we think Kissinger can't be topped as an outrage to freedom and justice, the lead story in my Sunday paper yesterday was Bush declaring he can kill whomever he wants to merely on his own say so.
This is what America has come to - making lists of people who can be killed on the spot.
First Bush passed a law saying he could keep people in jail without trial and without lawyer and without phone call merely on the say so of any of his totally corrupt functionaries; now he's graduated to saying he can kill anyone he pleases merely on whim " sure, sure, they'll produce "evidence," but as in the case with Iraq and this funny group named al-Qaeda (the one that nobody ever seems to be able to find until some Nazi [read: U.S. or Israel] government arrests them and releases a neatly packaged photo and bio), they don't ever have to release the "evidence", they just have to say they have it, and then Tony Blair will get up and freak out about how dangerous these folks are, the ones that they have the "evidence" against, kind of like what happened right after 9/11, when Blair insisted we had this irrefutable "evidence" against Osama bin Laden, which we still have not, by the way, seen.
And as long as I'm going in this direction, let me point something out: The real purpose of 9/11, it seems to me, was to demonize Muslims, to make public consciousness more amenable to going to war against Muslim countries. Most people have accepted the general drift of media coverage and accepted bin Laden's guilt, accepted that this was a Muslim conspiracy, Muslims who drank and went to strip clubs and used cocaine, devout Muslims who gave their lives for the holy terror against the West "because they envied our freedom."
Have you ever heard anything stupider than that assertion? Well, yes, actually " that anybody believes that story!
We must not completely forget that Osama bin Laden may not actually exist - except in the minds of war publicists. It is already a virtual certainty that this dreaded al-Qaeda bunch is actually a department of the U.S. CIA, designed to wreak fake terror in order to facilitate more oppressive laws to keep the unruly population in check.
When you start to track this whole terror suicide tangent, you run across something else that you may not have noticed and that you certainly won't read in big newspapers, especially the biggest newspaper, the New York Times. It's that long-ago Lyndon LaRouche assertion that Hamas and Islamic Jihad have received funding from Israel because they oppose the PLO; yes, that's Israel funding terror against itself. Why would they do that? Think about it. Why were those Israelis cheering in New Jersey right after the towers were hit? Think about who benefits from terror. Think about why 9/11 really happened and why you don't read a single thing about this in the newspapers, even though it is the most important subject to be thinking about in all the world.
Well, you can bet me and my friends in the new resistance are thinking about it, every day and at all times. Let's face it: Nazi bankers have taken over the world and are trying to turn every country into a combination of plantation run by them and concentration camp containing us. George W. Bush wants every country in the world to be exactly like Honduras, where the killer villains are in charge, ordinary people have no say, and rich criminals far away steal the bulk of that country's value and the local populace is drugged or bludgeoned into silence. That is, as they say, the Republican message of today.
America is making war on its own people, and using convicted and as yet uncaught criminals to do it: felon John Poindexter tracking the secret facts of Americans. Now that is simply Hitlerian. John Ashcroft is a felon who simply has not yet been arrested.
And George W. Bush? You want the list? (Note the number of death penalty offenses he has committed!) How about starting with military desertion in time of war? Of course, there is the cocaine smuggling, although they say Jeb deserves most of the credit for that. And then there would be the blatant looting of banks during the S&L fire sales in the 1980s, although his father deserves most of the credit for that.
The most frequent criminal activity of George W. Bush, of course, would be obstruction of justice, given the people he has hired and the laws he has abrogated to further the criminal activities of his father and his friends. Are you listening, Kenny Boy? And of course, the crime we're really trying to pin on him, other than treason for his willful destruction of the Constitution, would be mass murder, both for presiding over the inside job on 9/11 and for the needless invasion of Afghanistan, just to make his pipeline plan and drug smuggling work. New charges will doubtless be available after he starts using up more military ordnance on Iraq. And who knows? The sky's the limit for this guy, truly the most evil American president ever.
And worse, it's not only the president who - if the world were a just and honest place - should be indicted for mass murder and treason, but a MAJORITY of the U.S. Congress, too, who has voted for his totalitarian initiatives ... let's just say anybody who took a contribution from Enron should now be in jail.
And right now the United States is making war, right in front of our noses, in more than a dozen countries, and on the wrong side of honor and justice - against the rights of the people - in every single case. Land of the free and the home of the brave? Shit! Land of the duped and home of the chickenshit chickenhawks!
The big one is not really Afghanistan or Iraq - it's Colombia, where rapidly increasing numbers of U.S. troops are preparing for action next door in Venezuela, but also in Ecuador, Peru and Brazil, all countries in which people-power movements have broken out.
The United States, of course, has always been at war in Central America, maintaining murderous dictatorships in Guatemala, Hondurus, Nicaragua and El Salvador, where ordinary people have no chance of living decent lives. And of course you know about the continuing activities in Indonesia and the Philippines (the latter a country in which we have conducted covert operations for more than 100 years, by the way).
The farcical situation continues in the Middle East, where Nazi Eretz Israel continues its obliteration of Palestinian babies and old women " the U.S. newspapers reverse the nomenclature because they are owned by either Jews or Zionists: it's really Jewish terrorists and Palestinian freedom fighters, not the other way around, and has been so since 1948 (if not before), when the Jews first started killing the natives, stealing their land, and then changing the names of the villages, hoping no one would notice what they were doing.
And Iraq. What a horrible joke. There was no legitimate reason for the first Gulf War and there is even less justification for this one, except that Bush wants to steal their oil and the sleeping American populace, further anesthetized by the CNN/Fox daily parade of lies called "Showdown with Iraq", seems reluctant to stand in the way of this latest chapter of Christian crusade against the heathens.
That there is no evidence against Iraq is clearly reflected in Bush's attempt to come up with some new trumped up charge at least once a week. War by propaganda. America does not now nor has it ever cared who it kills, and that is the one big horror that Americans refuse to face, why the Bush cabal, and the Clinton cabal before it, get away with what they do, which is killing innocent people for profit, that's what America has always done, since the days of killing 60 million Indians.
That's what America does: it kills innocent people for money.
So ... you won't read that in most newspapers but I do hear it talked about frequently on the web, among my friends, George in Switzerland, Jeanne in Poland, Steen in Denmark, Big Bob in Sweden, Jack Riddler in Berlin, Tim in Ireland, Jared at the Hague, Rick in Azerbaijan, Zsolt in Budapest, Al in North Dakota, Rick in Arkansas, Mary in Tallahassee, Helen and Judith in New Hampshire, Dick in Yakima, Ken in Phoenix, David in Portland, Will in Vancouver, Alistair in New Zealand ... I know of hundreds and they all know of thousands and probably they all know of millions who are constantly talking about that what you read in the big newspapers are lies - that our freedom is being stolen by bankers, arms makers and politicians who would just as soon murder their own children (ritually murder, for you Bohemian Grove fans out there) as let an opportunity slip by to make a buck.
The group I know on the Internet realizes that the U.S. government sends troops to Colombia ostensibly to fight the war on drugs, but the real purpose of this effort is to ASSURE THE FLOW of drugs, not to eradicate the crop, because the feds are simply making way too much money on this crop to ever want to destroy it. The deals in Kosovo, Macedonia, the Stans and to some extent Iraq are also about this. My group knows this. The big newspapers write little about it.
The group I talk with every realizes pretty much as a group that the last U.S. election was totally fixed - that democracy is dead in the United States - because of the electronic voting machines that can be manipulated both before and after the fact - and also, I think, during - mean that anyone who was declared the winner in any given election last month (are you listening, Norm Coleman?) did not necessarily win that election, but there is no way to check. This goes hand-in-hand with the Patriot Act and Homeland Security Department " totally fake democracy all around. That the media and Congress approve of these measures simply means these are people who should not be listened to, never mind voted for.
People talking on the web know you shouldn't ever take a government immunization and that they real reason for them is to make lots of money for some pharmaceutical giant. We also realize that there probably is no new big medical problem today that was not developed in some black budget government lab.
So each morning, we rise before dawn, turn on our computers, and see what stories our friends and the new day will bring. Later that night, we in the new resistance still toil in front our screens, bleary-eyed, to squeeze out one more message to our friends about some organized peace activities or consumer medical alert or to beware of some new scam invented by some government PR criminal. If you have any feelings about the need for freedom and the ability to say whatever you want, we'd like you to join the new resistance. But you're going to have to have a computer.
It is the way of the real world now. The real people are on the Internet, trying to let others know about the lethal lies that are being foisted upon us at every turn. The fake people are sending press releases to totally cynical and unreliable newspapers, urging others to support the War on Terror, without really realizing (or worse, perhaps they do!) that the war on terror is really a war on freedom, perhaps their very own.
John Kaminski is a writer who lives in Florida and spends much way too much time online.
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Posted by sandman420 @ 12/17/2002 03:20 PM EST
not paying taxes is the correct thing to do in the USA. word! not a penny!
but I'm not in the US, I'm posting these great interviews (see my former post) for webmasters outside the States, to keep foreign webpages growing, now that they're being attacked in Amerikkka. Mike Ruppert warning for Saddam Hussein??? something's wrong at http://www.fromthewilderness.com
!
Posted by fritzlang @ 12/17/2002 03:21 PM EST
well, maybe I'm overly paranoid about fromthewilderness - but vigilance is warranted. Mike Ruppert has been threatened and shot at before...
Posted by fritzlang @ 12/17/2002 03:30 PM EST
SEND GOOD THOUGHTS FOR VOX , ALL ENERGY IS POWER....HOW 'BOUT GROuP THOUGHT AT 7:oo P.M./ P.S.T.
Posted by Buk'buk'wala'nuksuwai @ 12/17/2002 03:37 PM EST
Fritzlang- Your not paranoid at all. My favorie saying is if your not paranoid your not paying attention!
There is a war on the internet right now and the frontline troops waging the battle. Check out what's going on at Rumor Mill News- they are getting hacked every day. Check out Icke.com they are the king of hack. They are trying to take out the best sites the people have like We the People, Vox, What Really Happened, Rumormillnews and many others. These are the ones they are most afraid of so they are the ones we should rally around, like my man Rage said, with a pocket full of shells to keep the info flowing freely. Peace
Posted by sandman420 @ 12/17/2002 03:39 PM EST
Fellow Americans and freedom lovers everywhere, can somebody get the story about Vox into some form of mainstream media? This is new york for gods sake we have to get this out. This is our most basic fundamental liberty and it is being destroyed in front of our eyes. Ignorance is the greatest tool of the oppressor, we have to let people know what is happening, talk to friends, strangers, everybody, they can try to shut us down here online but they can't stop our voices. Do guerilla radio or tv or something, remember how Howard Stern had people saying his name in all sorts of inappropriate (but on air) venues. We need to do the same for Vox. THIS CANNOT BECOME JUST ANOTHER 'WACKO' THAT GETS PUT AWAY!!! ORGANIZE, BE ACTIVE! AND TALK! TALK TALK! in the end that may be all we have left. but we will keep up the struggle, count on it.
Posted by Diogenes @ 12/17/2002 04:20 PM EST
i think JEFF RENSE might be a fake. a plant....
maybe i'm 'paranoid', or maybe i'm just 'paying attention.'
what do you guys think about rense?
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/17/2002 04:25 PM EST
is it true that michael moore was raided the same day, and several others? anyone have news?
Posted by poupee des bois @ 12/17/2002 04:29 PM EST
I don't think Rense is a plant. However, one should be careful in assuming what his views are. I notice he tends to post fairly one-side links on the following issues:Zimbabwe, apartheid in SA and its defenders, pro-KKK types, anti-Mexican racists. Don't know if he controls the links, but some fairly disgusting racist material gets through. I'm not into this whole "left must unite with right" bs, that seems to get spread on places like RumorMillNews, etc. I agree with the right on two or three issues that the left gets all wrong: fluoride, gun rights, but that's about it....
Posted by el diablito @ 12/17/2002 04:40 PM EST
I'm very suspicious of Jeff rense - just try getting anything published on his site. He is *very* selective with what goes up and what doesn't. He's no Art Bell, but maybe something more Machiavellian. Make your own minds up.
Posted by andy @ 12/17/2002 05:40 PM EST
Hi vox, where ever you are--
What's with all this paranoia, folks? Jeff Rense has posted vox's article predicting the death of a liberal senator (scroll down past major stories). And vox's entire site link is now on page (not links) at
mirrormirroronthewall.Ocatch.com
(very interesting site)--i deal w/paranoia, too, but recognize it as a form of fear and work to get out of it--everyone posting here right now from USA showing courage, in my opinion--we are exercising our right of free speech guaranteed by our First Amendment--we all know that scary things are happening hee and that what happened to vox could happen to us, too--highly unlikely that mainstream media will pick up his story--they don't even cover peace demos--sincerely hope that all of you posting here have large circle of friends to visit and talk to about things going on here--i personally live in land of apathy and materialism w/few to communicate with--let's use our time on this site wisely to encourage and educate each other.
Peace and Freedom, kathleen
PS: The Michael Moore whose home was entered was not Michael Moore of "Stupid White Men"--another M. Moore- a Vietnam vet--those poor guys still getting shafted.
Posted by kathleen beatty @ 12/17/2002 05:48 PM EST
Check out my comments at Freemasonry Watch, discuss room.
Posted by north wind @ 12/17/2002 06:02 PM EST
Here is a website posting about the situation. (and did find the article/link above)
http://www.libertythink.com/index.html
also an article @
Posted by Xaos @ 12/17/2002 06:11 PM EST
ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION
ABSOLUTLEY NO ONE GO FOR THE SMALL POX VACINATION!!!
WE ARE BEING TRICKED TO OUR DEATHS TO LOWER OUR IMUNE SYTEMS, I.E. INFECT OURSELVES, WITH A DESEASE THAT RUPTURES BLOOD CELLS AND ALLOWS STREP A TO ENTER THE BLOOD STREAM, UPON WHICH YOU WILL AL BE GIVEN ANTI-BIOTICS TO SUPPOSEDLY HELP YOU THROUGHT THE ORDEAL, THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THE ANTI-BIOTICS ARE THE FOOD THAT STREP A NEEDS TO MUTATE IN TO NONE OTHER THEN:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
necrotizing fasciitis
A.K.A
THE FLESH EATING BACTERIA
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I CALL IT THE "COCKROACH" DESEASE AS IT FORMS AND MUTATES BY ADAPING TO THE ANTIBIOTICS IT IS GIVEN FORMING AN UNSTOPPABLE DSEASE WHERE YOU MUST HAVE FLESH REMOVED BACK TO THE GOOD FLESH, AND EVEN THEN THERE IS STILL A CHANCE IT WILL HIT YOUR INTERNAL ORGANS!!!!!!
THE ANIT-BIOTICS IT WHAT DOES IT, THE SMALLPOX VACCINE IS TO FUCK UP YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM AND THEY ARE ABOUT TO KNOCK OFF OVER 9/10 THS OF THE WORLDS, IF NOT AMERIKKKAS POPULATION.
REVOLUTIONARIES HEED MY WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE GOVERNMENT IS LYING ABOUT THE DEATH TOLL, AS THERE ARE ACTUALLY 3 MEN WHO HAVE DIED IN THE PAST WEEK AND YOU WON'T HEAR ABOUT IT ON THE T.V., AS THEY ARE STILL ONLY MENTIONING IT AS STREP A, IT'S THE FUCKING FLESH EATING BACTERIA.
VOX IF YOUR OUT THERE I OFFER YOU REFUGE, YOU HAVE MY EMAIL, BUT MICROSOFT HAS DESTROYED MY ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE, I CAN ONLY GET MESSAGES THROUGH A TRICK AS IT IS.
EVERYONE, THE TOWERS THAT ARE AROUND YOUR TOWN ARE MIND CONTROL DEVICES THAT ARE EMITTING BETA AND THETA WAVES THAT TRY TO MIMIC AN ALPHA STATE AND TRICK YOU INTO THINKING THAT YOU ARE IN ALPHA ONLY TO REPLACE YOUR ALREADY PREDISPOED LIKE AND DISLIKE WITH THEIR PROGRAMMING.
SMOKE POT SMOKE POT SMOKE POT SMOKE POT
TAKE AS MANY MUSHROOMS AS YOU CAN
EAT ACID
DO ANYTHING YOU CAN TO KEEP THEM FROM ALTERING YOUR BRAIN FILTER!!!!
STAY IN ALPHA STATE!!!!!!!!!
YOU'RE ALL BEING GIVEN PROGAMMING OF PSYCHOLOGICAL ANCHORS THAT CONTROL YOUR DESISCIONS AND MAKE YOU THINK YOU ARE ACTING WITH FREEWILL.
THE DRAGONIANS ARE ON THE MOVE.
KEEP YOURSELVES AWARE.
THEY LIVE.
braski~
ps. Just remeber we have the Plaadeans on our side and all will be taken care of, but this does not mean we can be lazy, for we must bear witness before the change can happen.
~dissahc~
the time to leave the cave is now!!!
http://www.geocities.com/freeyourbrain
Posted by braski @ 12/17/2002 06:27 PM EST
as for rense and other media types... the nazis understood the importance of media and by 1936 hitler controlled the media exclusively, understanding the mind kontrol potential he put it to work. i think rense and all of our "controlled media" is just that. bear in mind the hegallian dialectic of thesis, anti-thesis, solution and it all starts to connect up.
on the other hand we untermencsh can use these media as conduits for knowledge and remember dear readers knowledge equals power.
Posted by loner @ 12/17/2002 06:29 PM EST
here is one link to an article describing the flesh eating bacteria outbreak......
Are you already to die from U.S. biological weapons?
necrotizing fasciitis
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=1921366
kinda makes me wanna rethink the whole "The Stand" thing, perhaps 1000 years from now when the population returns to higher levels we will reconsider calling Mr. King and author and call him a Prophet, after all his book was written under the influence and very close to Satoric Enlightenment
Braski~
Posted by braski @ 12/17/2002 06:37 PM EST
to loner, yes that is my point exactly use the media, guerrilla statements, wherever you see a camera crew or can call a radio show anything-- get this word out, people were doing that with that asswipe howard stern and he became #1 on the radio, we can take back the media! after all aren't the airwaves supposed to belong to the public??? what the hell has happened to the American tradition of resistance? RESISTANCE IS NOT FUTILE! IT IS OUR ONLY HOPE!
kathleen glad to hear your voice on here, it's almost like with Vox in limbo you are a spiritual stand in-- sorry you live in the land of the apathetic, but you did mention you were 'an aging hippie' (not that old i'm sure) do you remember, know of, can find out about-- anything that was done or anyone who was around during the repression of the civil rights/antiwar struggles of the 60s that can help us? history and our memories are being so twisted that it's hard to find anything we can anchor to
let's all stick together we can overcome this horrible oppression
and remember that VOX most certainly chose that name in short for VOX POPULI (VOICE OF THE PEOPLE) let them here our voice if it's loud enough not even that fear driven puppet media can ignore it
Posted by diogenes @ 12/17/2002 06:52 PM EST
I live in Europe. I'm writing letters tomorrow to several European media to adress this web-raid. If everyone writes ONE short letter to major media offices, they will start to think twice.
That's the law of the free market. So please,do it! It has proven to work, we must stay ahead in this race. To your keyboards, printers, stamps and emails!
Posted by flow @ 12/17/2002 08:07 PM EST
please "kids" just play it cool. its fine if you want to rise up and be heard in a peaceful fashion. if you wish to be heard do it with your voice not with your anger. they want this "show" to get violent so they can clean us up like rats. stay cool stay calm but be heard. DO NOT FALL INTO THE GAME OF KILL OR BE KILLED ONLY EVIL PLAYS THIS GAME. trust your heart trust your soul. trust the fact that we were all created.we are all one we are the same and those of us that love and give thanx to all that is one will never fade away. give thanx to the creator and respect all that is all. find your spirit focus it on the good of what will be. this is not the end it is the fresh start of a paradise soon to come. for those who love and respect all that is life and all that is one under the creator this is the dawning of our time. as the wise master jesus once said "see that you are not troubeld for all these things must happen". just love live and be heard for what you stand for. love will find away just keep hope and find the true soul of your spirit.... if you look at it right this is all just part of a silly test make sure you dont fail :) i love you folks with all of my heart we will be okay when all is said and done. all that stand peaceful for the love that is true will live on forever in the hope that is you. it has begun make sure your playing for the right team. we shall never stand down to the dragon. we shall simply rise above and move into a higher level of freedom life and love. speak and be heard for this is your free will. but remain peaceful and loving in your movement. pease be with us all in this test of truth.....love of all that is all and the power that created all is your best defence. " believe it if you need it if you dont just pass it on "......just love yell and be happy :)~ peace be with us all.....
Posted by love against the machine @ 12/17/2002 09:33 PM EST
everyone email jeff rense program. several of us have emailed him repeatedly about this story. why on earth would his show not publish it. look at all the princess pieces they publish. they printed a story about a man who was arrested for saying "burning bush"; they printed a story about a guy who took a snapshot of cheney's hotel in denver -- but they won't even look at this very important story about Vox - a true hero - whos constitutional right to freedom of speech has been seriously breeched. it's obvious that TPTS are freaking out because they know he's making a big splash -- not just in america -- but internationally.
why wouldn't Rense be interested? maybe it's too hot for him. maybe he is one of their plants.
bombard him with emails about this. bombard everyone you know. i've contacted the moderator at michael moore's website. i think he has still has integrity and would help vox and make it public (if he gets the message, that is).
well, i've had my say. back to writing...
have a nice day.
Posted by manon_lachasseuse @ 12/17/2002 09:38 PM EST
p.s. sorry for my typos. (just tired)
Posted by manon_lachasseuse @ 12/17/2002 10:00 PM EST
Somebody got to let ALEX JONES in on this one too...
Posted by Mech @ 12/17/2002 11:52 PM EST
You can download his site's content on http://nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=41553&group=webcast
Then all you need is his source code, and then I guess you can make a mirrorsite. I'm working on it. I suggest everyone with an ounce of webspace does the same.
Cut one head, ten more will pop up.
Posted by flow @ 12/18/2002 03:27 AM EST
Genocide
Reasons:
To feed on the life force of frightened humans.
To satisfy the maniacal craving for power.
Make room for all of the alien/human hybrid supermen who will rule, and be ruled by alien non-humans.
Make the surface of the earth inhabitable for the alien non-humans.
(They have been underground and in outer space for millions of years.)
Goals:
Reduce the human non-hybrid population by 95% as was Ted Turner’s stated ideal.
World Government run by the alien/human hybrids, controlled by the Gray aliens who are controlled by the reptilian aliens who are controlled by the insect aliens. These non-human aliens claim that they were here on earth long before humans existed. They claim that they are the earliest indigenous, intelligent species of earth.
(I’ll bet the French frogs became intra-galactic travelers before the British reptilians did. Of course, the German roaches were there first. Then they combined their efforts to make the Italian vegetables into the Grays to serve them. Finally, after God made humans, His earlier creations were jealous and have claimed to have been our gods ever since. Somehow God has kept these bugs, amphibians, dragons, snakes, and black eyed peas off of the surface of the earth most of the time. But their hybrids have become our kings, presidents, congresspersons, etc.)
Strategies:
Use up all of the aggressive soldier genes in our population, leaving a most easily controlled population of slaves.
Kill non-hybrid humans using all means possible, especially non-Caucasians, except those kept as slaves.
Eliminate identities of all ethnic groups, all races, and nations.
Reduce the birth rate and increase the death rate in all ways possible.
Make economic collapse.
Increase slavery.
Methods:
Depleted Uranium induced diseases and deaths are epidemic:
Imagine for a moment the effects on the air and water table in the high desert near Reno Nevada being contaminated with every toxin which our military uses at their weapons test site close by, especially from 1 million tons of DU ammunition having been used there. Have the cancer rate and the death rate increased in and around Reno Nevada similar to the increase in and around Basra Iraq, i.e. more than 600%?
More than 60% of children conceived by Gulf War Vets who have had Gulf War Syndrome, have been born with birth defects. See gulfwarvets.org for the facts and the available treatments which the VA refuses to use and discourages Vets to use.
Book: Metal of Dishonor: Depleted Uranium, How the Pentagon Radiates Soldiers and Civilians with DU Weapons
Authors include former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, Dr. Michio Kaku, Dr. Helen Caldicot, Dr. Rosalie Bertell, Dr. Jay M. Gould, Dan Fahey, Sara Flounders, Manuel Pino, and many others.
$12..95 at leftbooks.com
See “LOW INTENSITY NUCLEAR WAR” http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pandora/low_war.html
1984 FAA MEMO: DEPLETED URANIUM USED COMMONLY IN AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURE POSES SERIOUS HAZARD TO CRASH INVESTIGATORS
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pandora/du.html
http://www.newsmakingnews.com/contents11,14,00.htm#Iraqis%20and%20former%20GIs%20to%20sue%20in%20US%20over%20depleted%20uranium
Iraqis and former GIs to sue in US over depleted uranium
By Kim Sengupta in Baghdad
14 November 2000, The Independent, London
Iraqi victims of cancer and former American soldiers suffering from Gulf war syndrome are joining forces to sue the US government over use of depleted uranium (DU) missiles.
Meetings have been held between US-based families of the Iraqis, former American service personnel and lawyers over legal action in America. Former British personnel who say they have been affected by DU will be invited to join the multi-million-dollar claims.
A decade after Operation Desert Storm, lawyers believe there is enough evidence to link the massive rise in cancer in Iraq and the effect on British and American soldiers to almost 950,000 DU missiles and shells fired. A conference will be held in Spain this month, to be attended by international medical experts, Gulf war veterans and lawyers, including Ramsay Clark, a former American attorney general. The impending legal action is likely to dominate the agenda.
Among the veterans to address the conference, in Gijon, will be two Gulf war syndrome sufferers, Ray Bristol, a Briton, and the former US sergeant Carol Picou, who gave evidence to a congressional commission on DU munitions.
Their lawyers are expected to say the American government "recklessly" used DU, a bi-product of nuclear energy, knowing its devastating effect. DU-hardened missiles have a high penetration rate. When a projectile hits a target, 70 per cent of the DU coating burns and oxidizes, bursting into toxic radioactive particles. One of the main arguments expected to be put forward is that American soldiers were not given protective clothing when sent to inspect damage caused by shells coated with DU.
In Iraq, campaigners say, almost 250,000 civilians have been affected by DU and there has been a sevenfold leap in cancer, especially among children, and deformities in birth. UNICEF, the UN children's organization, says 4,000 children under five die every month.
Professor Ashraf Elbayoumi, a former professor of chemistry at Michigan State University, said yesterday: "There is ample evidence to link the pattern of cancer to DU."
At the Saddam Children's Hospital in Baghdad there is a continuous stream of children diagnosed with cancer. And the international ban on trade is biting. Mohammed Firas, the 29-year-old chief resident doctor, shrugged hopelessly at the end of a 19-hour shift.
"The number of children we are getting with cancer has gone up 400 per cent," he said. "But we lack the most basic medication. You see these children bleed and die in front of you. I just wish there was more we could do ..."
See: Depleted Uranium Watch at http://www.stopnato.org.uk/du-watch/index.htm
I doubt that George W. Bush will be vaccinated. His alien-human hybrid immune system is probably not strong enough, or perhaps it’s compromised by Jack Daniels, coke and AIDS. But, hey, he’s incharge, right? Pity George because he has been victimized by Illuminati mind control all his life. Go to suite101.org or .com, and read everything there written by Svali, a former, escaped, redeemed, chief Illuminati trainer, torturer, assassin, and high priestess. According to Svali, every Illuminati child is tortured, split into many personalities, mind controlled, taught to torchure, kill, drink blood, and eat human flesh in Satanic rituals. G. W. is probably tortured every time he makes a mistake. Finally, his own will kill him. Then he’ll re-experience all that his victims felt. That should take an eternity in complete darkness.
George W. Bush is desperate to avoid his superiors’ wrath, and to cover up his father’s and his own crimes. They have committed worse than treason all of their lives.
I enjoy eating black eyed peas and frogs’ legs.
Frogs’ legs taste like chicken if the water they’ve been in was clean.
I can’t say the same for either lizards, or roaches. I’ve never tried them.
I suggest that you get HEPA air filters and a water distiller for your home.
They might reduce the effects of DU and other toxins. Pray for peace and justice.
Enjoy nature and you friends. God’s creation is wonderful.
Peace, courage, and joy,
Jon Carl Skoglund
“God gave a free man a clearing in the forest.”
Posted by Free Man @ 12/18/2002 04:30 AM EST
here's the latest on vox from wrh:
Government: Political Essayist Voxfux - A Massive Manhunt
Posted by: valis on Dec 17, 2002 - 03:47 AM
Info At 10AM on Friday the 13th, A combined task force from the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, and Major Crimes Unit raided a Long Island home believed to be that of the political essayist who writes under the pen name Voxfux.
There were simultaneous raids at several locations throughout New York City and Brooklyn.
Voxfux is represented by Norman Seigal (From NYCLU). The civil rights lawyer Ron Cuby is also involved in the discussions.
Later in the day Vox was interviewed at an undisclosed location with Amy Goodman from the radio program Democracy Now.
There has been no formal charges presented so far. Neighbors were issued orders to contact the Authorities upon seeing or hearing from the man believed to be behind the caustic pen.
A neighbor, who wished to remain anonymous for fear of violating any orders of the combined law enforcement effort, spoke praises of her neighbor, "There's no way he's a terrorist, he's a sweetheart, I don't believe it for one minute. I've known him for seventeen years. He's an artist and a writer. This is rediculous."
The case has the potential to be a lightening rod for civil libertarians, coming just days after the passage of the controversial Homeland Security Act. The articles Believed to be penned by the mystery writer can be found at www.voxnyc.com
from IndyMedia thread:
Voxfux has been making appearances throughout the day in the East Village talking a lot to a lot of people. He's pissed. But he is definately NOT in their custody.
I saw one of his assistants who confirmed the Amy Goodman interview. She told me that Voxfux has requested that the interview NOT be aired at this time.
He told me to tell everyone to not have fear. He feels like a lion and never had more resolve in his life.
Posted by loner @ 12/18/2002 04:34 AM EST
Vox Mirror 1:
http://lightscion.com/VoxNYC_MIRROR.htm
piece of cake...
here's where you download the content http://nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=41553&group=webcast
and then you apply the source code from the main page of this web site to it.
Posted by flow @ 12/18/2002 04:41 AM EST
by the way aliens come from the pentagon.
Posted by loner @ 12/18/2002 04:52 AM EST
add mirror to your bookmarks & favorites, in case voxnyc shuts down.
http://lightscion.com/VoxNYC_MIRROR.htm
Posted by flow @ 12/18/2002 05:10 AM EST
Good to hear Vox is up and at 'em!
I for one say lay off Jeff Rense. He's certainly no plant, and if you need convincing (even more than the stories he posts), just check out the sites that link through his sites. All your favorites, and the gov't would NOT hand out such easy access to these sites.
I'm guessing he publishes the story when there is an actual, more complete story written by someone who has a better command of the English language than that story posted by valis.
Posted by Question @ 12/18/2002 06:56 AM EST
Hey Freeks,it's not only about oil.It's not about WOMD. Consider this, If the so-called Illuminati control the dufus and his co-horts,where would the most prime of all places to hold their skullandbones type of satanic rituals and have the headquarters of the oneworldgovernment(AKA,NWO)be,Hmmmm? they like ritualistic type of places right? Check out a major kingdom in the Bible called "BABYLON" (first mentioned by some NIMROD in the book of genesis, Really big in the book of Daniel, and A major attraction in the book of Revalations) rumour has it that since GW1(gulf war one) that ole Saddam has been rebuilding it (about 500million spent) Nice place to have headquarters with a heither-fore unknown cat with some cryptic intials "AC ( that way,they can keep an "all seeing eye" on their conquests)
Freek em dano
Posted by LYNT @ 12/18/2002 08:21 AM EST
Hey Freeks,it's not only about oil.It's not about WOMD. Consider this, If the so-called Illuminati control the dufus and his co-horts,where would the most prime of all places to hold their skullandbones type of satanic rituals and have the headquarters of the oneworldgovernment(AKA,NWO)be,Hmmmm? they like ritualistic type of places right? Check out a major kingdom in the Bible called "BABYLON" (first mentioned by some NIMROD in the book of genesis, Really big in the book of Daniel, and A major attraction in the book of Revalations) rumour has it that since GW1(gulf war one) that ole Saddam has been rebuilding it (about 500million spent) Nice place to have headquarters with a heither-fore unknown cat with some cryptic intials "AC ( that way,they can keep an "all seeing eye" on their conquests)
Freek em dano
Posted by LYNT @ 12/18/2002 08:22 AM EST
Hey Freeks,it's not only about oil.It's not about WOMD. Consider this, If the so-called Illuminati control the dufus and his co-horts,where would the most prime of all places to hold their skullandbones type of satanic rituals and have the headquarters of the oneworldgovernment(AKA,NWO)be,Hmmmm? they like ritualistic type of places right? Check out a major kingdom in the Bible called "BABYLON" (first mentioned by some NIMROD in the book of genesis, Really big in the book of Daniel, and A major attraction in the book of Revalations) rumour has it that since GW1(gulf war one) that ole Saddam has been rebuilding it (about 500million spent) Nice place to have headquarters with a heither-fore unknown cat with some cryptic intials "AC ( that way,they can keep an "all seeing eye" on their conquests)
Freek em dano
Posted by LYNT @ 12/18/2002 08:22 AM EST
To Question : I've tried, as have many have my friends, to have certain articles posted by Jeff Rense. We've all failed. Now these are truly those that need to be in the public domain, but we were all thwarted. Other more mainstream articles have got through. So something is not 100% kosher with old Jeff. He does a great job, agreed, but is still falling short on some subjects. Just look at this thread, the amount of folks that have written to Rense about Vox (whether true or not) - and so far NADA from Rense.
Why is that?
I rest my case.
Posted by andy @ 12/18/2002 08:44 AM EST
RENSE: i am not a professional writer, but i majored in journalism and can write resonably well. i have on several occasions sent Rense well-written, well thought-out, newsworthy pieces that received no replies. however, on one occasion i did get a response from them that they would adjoin a retort that i wrote concerning one of Ron Paul's articles (their favorite "boy"). my retort pointed out MAJOR inaccuracies in his quoted stastics that were misleading. simple math and common sense could easily prove it ... anyway, Rense wrote me back (after I badgered them several times) and said they would print it ... but they never did! i could care less if my 'work' is published, but it upsets me when misleading inaccuracies and half-truths are printed.
and here we have a major story about a freedom fighter whose constitutional rights have been seriously breeched -- consequently affecting all of us -- and they are simply ignoring this. if writing etiquette is the issue, they can write their own piece! they've done it before! but this a hot news that is right up their ally. ... i just don't get it.
there is, however, one thing to consider about his program. how do you think he gets his funding? ADVERTISERS. they pay him. as in politics, he has to answer to those who support him. there's a certain amount of prostition that goes on with that. but i don't need to remind anyone here of how that works, do i?
Posted by manon_lachasseuse@yahoo.com @ 12/18/2002 10:18 AM EST
Andy, you said it yourself. "Whether true or not." Now granted, I believe that vox was raided and is either still on the lamb or caught by now. But what do you want Rense to do? Post one of those emails sent from here containing that less-than-stellar and detail-lacking article we've all read? Patience...if there is a story here, it'll be posted IMO. But until there is a story here, posting internet rumors discredits his site.
As far as Rense having a history of failing to post what you want him to, and thus being not 100% kosher, I reply that he's got every right to not post what you want him to. But if you could provide any examples in the past where he failed to post articles you requested him to, and those articles were credible, accurate, and as you said, "truly those that need to be in the public domain", your argument would be strengthened.
Posted by Question @ 12/18/2002 10:26 AM EST
i am going to write to Rense about the issue of his credibility. i'll let you know if i get a response. but don't hold your breath.
Posted by manon_lachasseuse @ 12/18/2002 10:29 AM EST
Rense has posted far too many uniquely revealing stories to be counfounded with disinformation agents. I mean, how many sites link to him because of articles and information only those familiar brown pages of rense.com can provide.
I give him a large benefit of the doubt.
but that's not the point. where the HELL is vox???
- - -
mirror site @
http://lightscion.com/VoxNYC_MIRROR.htm
Posted by flow @ 12/18/2002 10:32 AM EST
to "question" (above):
this vox story IS a FACT. indy news investigated it and reported it. and why do you think vox is not here? ... if rense needs more proof, he should simply write back (to one of the numerous people who wrote to him about it) and tell them that he needs more proof before he is willing to publish it. also, as i stated above, i HAVE written "credible and accurate" pieces that he actually said he would publish - and did NOT. I had incontrovertible PROOF of bad statistics used by Ron Paul, and he even acknowledged it, but refused in the end to print it. That's because Ron Paul is his little darling, and i'm sure he didn't want to tarnish his image. i also wrote to ron paul about it, and of course had no response.
i find this irresponsible and cowardly.
Posted by manon_lachasseuse@yahoo.com @ 12/18/2002 10:43 AM EST
and another thing...
if this story is not solid enough for rense -- if he thinks it could possibly be a hoax or rumor -- why wouldn't he just include that in the title or message? ... how many times have you seen one of his articles start out "hoax or not"? he leaves it up to the readers to decide. it's called a 'disclaimer'.
Posted by manon_lachasseuse @ 12/18/2002 10:48 AM EST
manon, you've piqued my curiosity. Mind sharing Ron Paul's "MAJOR inaccuracies in his quoted stastics that were misleading"?
Also, do you have a link to indy news's *investigative report* on the vox raid?
Finally, with regards to your claim that here we have a "major story about a freedom fighter whose constitutional rights have been seriously breeched", two things. 1st--major story? While I agree, I would also suggest it's only major to us. 2nd--have vox's constitutional rights been breached? I believe so, but it's just a guess. I think they raided his house because of the Bush article, but I don't know. Neither do you. He could have done any number of things to bring this on, and neither you nor I would know.
Look, I believe what you believe...that is, that vox was raided as a result of the article, and that this is in violation of his 1st ammendment rights. But why don't we just calm down, unbundle our undies, and wait for credible facts to emerge? I'm withholding judgement until I know a little bit more, and if I was a webmaster, I would CERTAINLY withhold judgement until I knew a little bit more.
Posted by Question @ 12/18/2002 11:03 AM EST
question, I think you are too prudent; vox's mailbox is stuffed to the max, and the original message of the raid seems totally genuine. I'm convinced that every freedom fighter is serious enough not to post hoaxes like that. certainly not vox.
second, let's not attack other related sites.
solution: everyone write a letter to a major media corporation, stating that
1. we want 9/11 journalistically investigated
2. we don't believe in the reality of an international al qaeda network
3. let our voices be heard
no more discussion: write it. forward it. i'm writing to CNN now.
Posted by fritzlang @ 12/18/2002 11:27 AM EST
Just to answer a few points for Question:
"Andy, you said it yourself. "Whether true or not.""
andy - I put this disclaimer in in the interests of fairness both to us and to Jeff Rense. Rense doesn't do his site all on his own, he has a webmaster, James Neff, and presunambly others to help him keep the site up to date. He's well capable of doing a little research on such an important story.
"Now granted, I believe that vox was raided and is either still on the lamb or caught by now. But what do you want Rense to do? Post one of those emails sent from here containing that less-than-stellar and detail-lacking article we've all read? Patience...if there is a story here, it'll be posted IMO. But until there is a story here, posting internet rumors discredits his site."
andy - Actually Rense does this all the time. Firstly, he could simply have checked out this thread and he would have found the stuff from credible sources detailing names, attorneys and so on. Remember this was allegedly a threat to the President, and as such you don't think this is a major story Question??? LOL, I don't know quite what planet you are on. Secondly, more details are emerging but still nothing at all from Rense.
andy - In fact he often posts stories with a disclaimer that this is "breaking news" or whatever, and days later the same story will be revisited and he will say "hoax" by the story, in bold red letters. In fact, often the actual hoax is a story in itself and rense has followed up and interviewed the hoaxer to find out why the hoax was perpetrated in the first place.
"As far as Rense having a history of failing to post what you want him to, and thus being not 100% kosher, I reply that he's got every right to not post what you want him to"
andy - of course.
"But if you could provide any examples in the past where he failed to post articles you requested him to, and those articles were credible, accurate, and as you said, "truly those that need to be in the public domain", your argument would be strengthened."
andy - yes it would, but I'm not prepared to dig those articles and emails up just now as it's too much aggro. for me, I've changed ISP's and have lost the data somewhere on floppies. They were to do with chanelling, and they provided an alternate viewpoint to the 911 and Iraq war build up scenarios. Incidentally, chanelling that has had a very high sucess ratio in the "past" as being accurate. Right up his alley I would have thought. As I said I've had friends write to him on other subjects and none got a reply let alone any URL or article published.
Anecdotal evidence simply suggests that he is not all that he cracks himself up to be - judge folks by what they DO, not by what they say.
Rense has DONE nothing on this story so far.
As far as your reply to Manon:
"Finally, with regards to your claim that here we have a "major story about a freedom fighter whose constitutional rights have been seriously breeched", two things. 1st--major story? While I agree, I would also suggest it's only major to us."
andy - It's only major to us because we few are the only ones reading it! Do you see my logic here? LOL! In fact rense should be publicising what happened to Vox, just like others who have been hounded and had their sites hacked and/or ISP's threatened etc. etc. by the alphabet agencies.
"2nd--have vox's constitutional rights been breached? I believe so, but it's just a guess. I think they raided his house because of the Bush article, but I don't know. Neither do you. He could have done any number of things to bring this on, and neither you nor I would know."
andy - then let Rense run with what he's got and revisit as more details emerge? is that not what a good reporter does? Jeez, Rense has missed half a dozen print deadlines already, or more!
"I'm withholding judgement until I know a little bit more, and if I was a webmaster, I would CERTAINLY withhold judgement until I knew a little bit more."
andy again - Then James Neff is doing a U-turn on his normal instincts - he would normally run with a story like this NOW.
So why not now?
Posted by andy @ 12/18/2002 11:31 AM EST
Um, fritzlang? Just when did I say in any way that this may be a hoax? Did I not, in fact, repeatedly say in these last posts that I believe vox was raided in a breach of his 1st ammendment rights?
Nor did I bash any other site.
Good luck with CNN, though.
Posted by Question @ 12/18/2002 11:34 AM EST
Hey Andy, I'm not saying that Rense shouldn't post the story, I'm just saying that I understand why he wouldn't YET.
Let's look at what we know and we'll assume that the sources are credible (even though the first is from "valis" in what publication?, and the second is from a thread on an internet discussion board). Vox's home and several other locations were raided. No charges filed, and no reason for the raid is yet known (that part is crucial. We assume we know, but we don't). Vox has a lawyer. He's apparantly a good neighbor. Since that time, vox has been spotted in New York. He's mad, but lion-esque.
Not a lot to work with here.
Posted by Question @ 12/18/2002 11:49 AM EST
"Hey Andy, I'm not saying that Rense shouldn't post the story, I'm just saying that I understand why he wouldn't YET."
andy - Hmmm, OK, benefit of the doubt for Jeff, but what about all those other stories he's ran with on homeland security, increased surveillance of citizens, echelon, the new total information software and etc. etc. and here we have a real live honest-to-goodness example of the alphabet agencies overstepping their brief by hassling/arresting/raiding this guy because of an IRONIC article about Shrub that simply presented an equation that said if we follow Shrub's criteria then he (shrub junior) should be assassinated himself. It was in no way a THREAT, it was simply a well thought out piece which shows precisely how the door was left open for the 911 perpetrators - jeez with goons like these wasting their time up dead ends like this it's no wonder real terrorists (home-grown, of course) get away with operating with impunity.
"Let's look at what we know and we'll assume that the sources are credible (even though the first is from "valis" in what publication?, and the second is from a thread on an internet discussion board). Vox's home and several other locations were raided. No charges filed, and no reason for the raid is yet known (that part is crucial. We assume we know, but we don't). Vox has a lawyer. He's apparantly a good neighbor. Since that time, vox has been spotted in New York. He's mad, but lion-esque.
Not a lot to work with here."
andy - WRONG! If I was a journalist I'd jump all over this one to highlight a whole bunch of issues!
Rense is no journalist, or so it seems.
Posted by andy @ 12/18/2002 12:15 PM EST
See, you based that entire argument exactly on what I said was the crucial part of mine. You assume the article was the impetus for the raid. Well I assume so too, but I don't know. Neither do you. Until we do know, we do not "have a real live honest-to-goodness example of the alphabet agencies overstepping their brief by hassling/arresting/raiding this guy because of an IRONIC article about Shrub."
The fact is that several locations, one of which was vox's home, were raided. We think we know what that means, but we cannot be sure.
Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Rense is not a journalist, at least as pertains to his website. Maybe he is on the radio show. I've never heard it. He doesn't write the articles that appear. Nor do his staff. What's he going to do, dispatch someone to Long Island?
The facts will come out. And when they do, and someone writes a coherent article, I'm still betting Rense posts it.
Posted by Question @ 12/18/2002 12:28 PM EST
"See, you based that entire argument exactly on what I said was the crucial part of mine. You assume the article was the impetus for the raid. Well I assume so too, but I don't know."
andy - actually I personally have no assumptions. The powers that be do not like voxnyc, copvcia, whatreallyhappened, and many more besides. I believe they will use any excuse they can to raid/hassle these sites. A very good friend read Vox's original article on this thread and basically said it was a no-brainer that the CIA etc. would arrest the guy, that they wouldn't get the irony (actually they would but they'd arrest him anyway as an example to others), they would take it at face value and proceed from there. Until the full facts emerge we won't know, but I suspect she was right.
"Neither do you. Until we do know, we do not "have a real live honest-to-goodness example of the alphabet agencies overstepping their brief by hassling/arresting/raiding this guy because of an IRONIC article about Shrub."
andy - yes this is true. But come on, Rense has the highest hits in the business, I believe he loses all credibility by ignoring a story like this. Maybe there is no story. That's for Rense's staff to handle, or Jeff himself. Sure he's a very busy man, but then again, IF TRUE, this is a major story. Surely a few phone calls from the Rense mob could establish the veracity or not of this within an hour or so, jeez, with all his contacts???
"The fact is that several locations, one of which was vox's home, were raided. We think we know what that means, but we cannot be sure."
andy - True, or so we are led to believe so far. Where is Rense on this? :O)))
"Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Rense is not a journalist, at least as pertains to his website."
andy - I guess only so much as Art Bell and others. But if you set yourself up as an alternative news guru, fighting the mainstream controlled media etc., then surely you have a duty on your website to do a little no-brainer-type digging?
"Maybe he is on the radio show. I've never heard it. He doesn't write the articles that appear. Nor do his staff. What's he going to do, dispatch someone to Long Island?"
andy - as I said he has incredible contacts, so that would be relatively easy to do. Also, as far as articles, he or James Neff makes a go or no-go decision based on each's credibility and source. I would assume that they do a little verification digging on some of them - if they don't then that's pretty irresponsible of them.
"The facts will come out. And when they do, and someone writes a coherent article, I'm still betting Rense posts it."
andy - I'll bet he posts it too. Maybe whoever writes the article can post this exchange and maybe Jeff can answer for himself.
As it is this is, OK I'll back down slightly, *potentially* a major story, and Rense has completely missed the boat with it.
Posted by andy @ 12/18/2002 12:47 PM EST
HELLO!!!!!!
FLESH EATING BACTERIA!!
necrotizing fasciitis
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=1921366
Will anyone pay attention, this is fucking seroious shit, there is no cure and we all have strep A in our throats, skin and lungs, all it needs it a way into the blood stream, ruptured cells (i.e. smallpox vacine which is just giving someone a small dose of the desease) and some form of strong antibiotic, that the Strep A then eats and mutates like a fucking cockroach to raid, and turns into the most deadly desease or rather biological weapon know to humans, necrotizing fasciitis
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=1921366
necrotizing fasciitis
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=1921366
necrotizing fasciitis
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=1921366
it's killed three already and they are getting ready to supposedly imunize the world to smallpox unleashing a world wide plague that they can blame on anthrax at first.
You get a rash, then your feet and hands turn pitch black, this is for real people, it real fucking scary!!!!!!!!
necrotizing fasciitis
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=1921366
http://www.nnff.org/ (non-profit for survior, which is rare)
http://www.diseaseworld.com/necro.htm (this link contains graphic images of what is gonna happen to us all, you were warned)
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpb/lcdc/bid/respdis/necro_e.html
http://www.hlth.gov.bc.ca/hlthfile/hfile60.html
http://www.crha-health.ab.ca/hlthconn/items/flesheat.htm
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/pphb-dgspsp/publicat/info/necro_e.html
http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/oto/grand/123192.html
remeber the snitbiotics is the food this shit needs to become unstoppable, it starts as fucking strep throat virus and mutates into something that is the most disgusting, cellular destroying, flesh eating virus man has ever come across and the U.S. govrnment is about to spread it to the world, please people I am not joking around here, this is really important, as there were over 1000 infected soliders that the sent back to work and releseased back out into the public, how many are there out there that we don't know about????????!!!!!!!!
The Satnd is going to become a self fufilling prophecy....
Braski~
Posted by braski @ 12/18/2002 12:59 PM EST
Sounds like we're hitting some common ground here! And we agree on the thought police. Just when did law enforcement agencies forget that it is their job to protect citizens who speak out under 1st ammendment protection from both other people and the government? Since they aren't doing it, who is? And who will protect them if they feel the need to speak out on some position under 1st ammendment protection?
Instead, they will use one of their many laws which are specially designed loopholes to get by that incovenient Constitution and Bill of Rights. I don't think they're necessarily bad individuals, and if you could sit them down individually many would probably acknowledge the extent to which enforcing the many laws (lower case) takes precedence over enforcing the Laws (upper case) described in the Bill of Rights.
When (and it hasn't yet happened) a credible story is written, I'm reasonably sure Rense will post it.
I hope vox writes it!
Posted by Question @ 12/18/2002 01:01 PM EST
Here's an email back from Rense on the Voxfux issue
"har!
YES: shills!
YES: armchair activists!
YES: New Age Democrats!
(but right wing Nazis when we reported on the Clintons)
YES: can't rock the boat!
YES: can't draw attention!
YES: can't stand up for what's right!
NO: not fucking STUPID enough to BEG for Federal criminal
arrest by posting bullshit calls for the murder of a president.
YOU: are acting like a complete, total horse's ass.
YOU: go right ahead and post some calls for
the murder of a president and see what YOU get.
With fading regards in the Age of NO ACCOUNTABILITY,
Mary"
As you can see, rense is staying clear of Vox. Why, because like Republicans turning pn Trent Lott or Democrats voting for NAFTA or War, they don't want to be politically incorrect. Write in to rense and give 'em hell.
Posted by Swamp Gas @ 12/18/2002 01:07 PM EST
we are getting of topic here. we will not be divided and conquered. as far as we know, Rense is cool, and Vox is cool. stop.
but it's obvious that Vox has been distanced from his weblog. everyone who truly believes in doing something for peace should write to the mainstream media about it, and ask for more truthfulness in reporting (especially concerning "al qaeda"). so not for me or for you, but for all of us: write, write, write. they will not listen, but they will hear. and you'll feel better when you slip that letter in the mailbox.
Posted by fritzlang @ 12/18/2002 01:20 PM EST
Glad you got a response from Rense. While I agree that if vox was raided for that essay, it's an awfully dubious search which runs counter to the intent of the Constitution, I respect Rense's right to post whatever he wants.
(By the way, flesh eating bacteria dude...while I agree that the smallpox vaccine is nasty to say the least, it is not a smaller dose of the disease. It is vaccinia virus, a related virus commonly worked on in laboratories (I have worked with it). The trick is, if you're immune to vaccinia, you're immune to smallpox. Just so you know. Fight the good fight).
Posted by Question @ 12/18/2002 01:26 PM EST
By the way, Swamp Gas, that reply you got is hilarious. I can't imagine what you wrote to get that response.
Posted by Question @ 12/18/2002 01:32 PM EST
Lets get off the Rense thing aright? Sure hes not a hard core radical like my main man VOX but then again few are. Lets appreciate his site for what it is-A moderate site that can still appeal to the main stream. After all we need the frigin main stream to get interested in this or were all dead. Most people cant relate to VOX- A bit to radical for the beginners. Im sure most of us at one time thought Rense and Bell were the shit! But now that we have been around the block a bit we see them for what they are- Moderate. And another thing- Who could possibly have anything bad to say about Ron Paul. This is one of the good guys like Rense. And for any of you that dont think there are only fluff peices on Rense read this and tell me this is isnt hitting as hard as VOX.
http://www.rense.com/general32/newway.htm
Posted by sandman420 @ 12/18/2002 01:33 PM EST
sandman and question:
i hear what you are saying about rense, but he's printed some pretty radical stuff himself - on the same level as some as some of vox's piece; in fact, i think he has used some of vox's pieces. it's not like we're asking him to publish something outrageous or to agree with vox (re the satirical 'bush must be immediately killed' article). we're just asking him to bring some 'awareness' to this issue and pose the question about whether his rights (and others like mike ruppert, michael moore) are being infringed upon; we're asking him to examine how this affects all of us down the line. where's the courage of his convinctions? ... i just think he can do better.
and re ron paul, i am not saying he's 'bad'. i'm just saying he had inaccurate stats, and i thought a correction was in order. rense agreed, but then didn't follow through.
if you need proof, i suppose i could dig it up if i take the time to search through my hard drive; it's been awhile and i am constantly writing -- i don't even remember the title of the piece. i don't have the time right now.
let's not become divided over the issue. i'm just a little perplexed as to where Rense stands. that's all.
Posted by manon_lachasseuse @ 12/18/2002 02:11 PM EST
Below is a message from one of the sucks out to use us for food.
It explains why and how Rense is controlled, and part of their masterplan.
Very little of what goes on is NOT scripted by them.
Vox was nothing they planned, so the plight of Vox gets no coverage.
Individual actions of individuals doing stuff individually is all they fear.
Like Vox.
Or, more accurately, they don't fear Vox because in their cosmology Individuals do not exist. It is the only flaw in their plan to enslave us.
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:43:58 -0800 (PST)
> From: Archonis <archonis@mail32.com>
> Subject: "The Revelation Of The Method"
>
> This is just some reflections on Freemasonry and Conspiracy,
> related to some of Hoffman and Downard's ideas. The primary
> illusion is that of conspiracy research being a dissident
> activity. On the contrary, the spreading of conspiracy material
> over the past 10 years or so, has been part of a plan of Masonic
> Mind-Control; related to the final Mystery of the psychodrama of
> the group mind of humanity.
>
> This has been pointed out by Downard
> as "The Making Manifest Of All That Is Hidden," and "The
> Revelation Of The Method." The secret behind this is that the
> recondite and hidden Mysteries of Occult Techonology in terms of
> mystical forces, statecraft, and psychodrama, are already deeply
> imbedded in the mass-consciousness; inculated traumata in terms of
> collective media programming, as well as on a metaphysical level.
>
> When conspiracy research is exposed to the masses, it brings the
> contents of this unconscious traumata to the surface, and weakens
> the collective will to resist the Cryptocracy, as well as
> implicates the masses in their own minds to all of the evil that
> they have unwitting sanctioned through their own moral turpitude.
>
> Also Conspiracy material is a form of PSYOPS. It demoralizes
> researchers due to their own impotence in stopping what they know
> is going on, and the hopelessness of doing so in relation to the
> stupidity of the common herd. Also, the masses by viewing this
> information become so convinced of their inferiority in relation
> to elite designs, that it just ripens them for greater submission
> and capitulation.
>
> The truth is, is that the elites have channeled
> all dissident activity to serve their purposes, and all of it just
> strengthens their power. Resistance is always predictable to them,
> and they channel it to their advantage or fund it themselves. Even
> if revolutionaries of the Right and Left overthrew all the
> national governments of the world, they would just clear the
> Nation-States out of the way for the already existing Totalitarian
> Global System, and U.N. troops would just kill them all for the
> favor of having ushered in the NWO that much faster.
>
> Also the
> radicals will have done the NWO managerial elites a favor for
> having gotten rid of their Plutocratic opposition, who would
> oppose their Totalitarian Socialist Regime. So Vanguardism serves
> the NWO. People hating their governments and weakening the
> Nation-States in the esteem of the masses, just helps the
> disintegration of States into the NWO Superstate.
>
> Conspiracy
> research helps as well. The NWO has co-opted all forms of
> reistance to itself, and uses it to further its own ends. The more
> chaos, the faster the masses will capitulate to the NWO in the
> name of peace and quiet.
>
> The truth is, is that the elite
> brain-trusts are smarter than the radical intelligensia, and can
> control them with money, if not with anything else. So what can be
> done? The basic mistake is thinking that the battle is between
> dissidents and the elites. This has seldom been true. The battle
> is between elite factions themselves: The "Third Estate" of
> finance capital that want a "Communo-Corporate Totalitarian
> Superstate" subourned to covert-economics that they can control,
> vs. the "Second Estate" or the "Black Nobility" that want to
> return the world to Monarchy and a Feudal Order.
>
> Everyone is just
> a player and pawn in this power struggle, game-pieces under the
> illusion that they are involved in a dissident struggle, in the
> name of the "People." The people never have ruled because they
> can't. Those acting in the name of the masses are just trying to
> make cattle into kings! The kings will just take power in the name
> of the cattle, it never works and never will.
>
> So what can anyone
> do? It has gone beyond volition into the realm of fate. What
> constitutes the apotheosis of human destiny reposes in fate
> itself. The NWO might not work due to technological and ecological
> limits, or the conflict between the nature and relations of
> production. (Subsistence vs. Consumer Economy) The environment and
> the tech. infrastructure is going to take some big hits to bring
> in the NWO, and it may not recover.
>
> > Monarchy and a return to a
> > feudal order is the most sustainable option in my view. My "North
> > American Monarchy Tract" at "Autarky," linked to from
> > http://www.rosenoire.org explains my position. Truthfully, the
> > present and future cannot compete with the past. We need a feudal
> > order with a warrior and priestly elite, vested in a system of
> > Monarchy and Nobility. A return to Empire. (Eurasianism and sound
> > geopolitics in Haushofer's concepts)
This is the scariest section of this to me:
Remember, these guys are serious.
Haushofer is the guy who studied Asian occultism, and came back to Germany with
the notion of Lieberstraum -- killing people to have living space.
The asian occultics he got these notions from are still active: Pol Pot, Sun
Myung Moon, and Aum Shinkro all are motivated by the same asiatic Dragon Cult
notions.
They even have their own "Temple of Solomon" already built and waiting for
Jerusalem to be reduced to a radioactive heap.
>
> A return to honor and
> tradition and institutions like the Teutonic Knights. Some might
> see this as Fascism, and call me a neo-Fascist. That is fine. I
> would accept the fascism of the "Second Estate" rather than the
> "Third Estate" with their bourgoise mediocrity and slave ideology.
> The ancient Romans would have laughed at the idea of a slave-class
> of money-lenders and merchants running the State, and destroying
> the Western Imperium, but this is what has happened. The only
> salvation for the future is to return to the past, an Imperium
> Europa. Hail the return of the Dark Spirit Of The West!
>
Clues for Individual Individuals
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495;article=35780
Why we're in the state we're in:
The 'No-Soul' Gang Behind Reverend Moon's Gnostic Sex Cult
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/2949moonification.html
I would suggest that individually motivated individuals individually do what ever they can to bring whatever attention to Vox's plight.
Those who think being quiet means they will be spared should re-evaluate their position.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Satan+on+War
Posted by The Webfairy @ 12/18/2002 02:13 PM EST
Boy, Webfairy, you sure straightened that all out. Isn't it nice to have easy answers? Please don't be so gullible, it adds nothing to this site.
Posted by el diablito @ 12/18/2002 02:23 PM EST
Maybe Rense and his webmaster are just sick of and annoyed with all the endless emails from you guys? If you would have used a little more tact maybe he would have helped you out . . .
Posted by Mason @ 12/18/2002 02:28 PM EST
And BTW, the site is probably still up so the Feds can track your IP's, just like they do with the Jihadi sites they takes over.
Posted by Mason @ 12/18/2002 02:31 PM EST
peace to all. one solution: write to major media, tell them what you dont like about their news.
vox mirror site (bookmark):
http://lightscion.com/VoxNYC_MIRROR.htm
Posted by flow @ 12/18/2002 03:40 PM EST
mason: i don't know about the others, but i did use tact. at least, initially.
re the FEDS, they must have their hands FULL! ;-)
Posted by manon_lachasseuse @ 12/18/2002 03:44 PM EST
i've been reading some of these posts, and i thought you might want to know that rense replied, saying his hands are full, but that he recognizes our feelings. until there's more news, forget it.
this is the only news i have received that seems to validate vox's plight. does it seem legitimate enough? can anyone verify it? (see below):
Political Essayist Voxfux - A Massive Manhunt (english)
Joan Bern, NF News 5:34pm Mon Dec 16 '02 (Modified on 7:10pm Mon Dec 16 '02)
article#223498
At 10AM on Friday the 13th, A combined task force from the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, and Major Crimes Unit raided a Long Island home believed to be that of the political essayist who writes under the pen name Voxfux.
There were simultaneous raids at several locations throughout New York City and Brooklyn.
Voxfux is represented by Norman Seigal (From NYCLU). The civil rights lawyer Ron Cuby is also involved in the discussions.
At 10AM on Friday the 13th, A combined task force from the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, and Major Crimes Unit raided a Long Island home believed to be that of the political essayist who writes under the pen name Voxfux.
There were simultaneous raids at several locations throughout New York City and Brooklyn.
Voxfux is represented by Norman Seigal (From NYCLU). The civil rights lawyer Ron Cuby is also involved in the discussions.
Later in the day Vox was interviewed at an undisclosed location with Amy Goodman from the radio program Democracy Now.
There has been no formal charges presented so far. Neighbors were issued orders to contact the authorities upon seeing or hearing from the man believed to be behind the caustic pen.
A neighbor, who wished to remain anonymous for fear of violating any orders of the combined law enforcement effort, spoke praises of her neighbor, "There's no way he's a terrorist, he's a sweetheart, I don't believe it for one minute. I've known him for seventeen years. He's an artist and a writer. This is rediculous."
The case has the potential to be a lightening rod for civil libertarians, coming just days after the passage of the controversial Homeland Security Act.
Posted by from the NYC Newswire @ 12/16/2002 07:29 PM EST
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/18/2002 03:56 PM EST
"i've been reading some of these posts, and i thought you might want to know that rense replied, saying his hands are full, but that he recognizes our feelings. until there's more news, forget it."
andy - Thanks for that nhrd - I do have Jeff's personal email id but haven't given it out because he will be swamped - at least he knows, but it's worrying (and confirms what I've been saying) that he's not prepared to file what he has so far.
After all, he can always retract it later, which is his SOP when things go tits-up.
If he filed something then the mainstream might pick it up, Drudgereport.com etc., but to do nothing just confirms what I've been thinking lately.
Posted by andy @ 12/18/2002 04:15 PM EST
andy, i agree. he could just mention something with a disclaimer saying that he's waiting to get more information to validate what's going on, etc...
then the others might pick it up.
but...
we just have to wait to hear something from somebody to get more news.
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/18/2002 04:30 PM EST
The Big Brother Agency DARPA, has removed its staff bios' from its IAO site after John Poindexters phone and address and satellite photos of his home was posted on the net. They have also removed the Masonic all seeing eye/death ray from its site as well. Don't worry, the staff bios have been mirrored. NW...
Posted by north wind @ 12/18/2002 04:40 PM EST
I must say one of Vox's major weaknesses is the fact no one knows who the hell he is. I have tried to contact him several times to appear on our show (check it out)
http://globalfreepress.com/sgtv/
or help out with a VoxNYC segment but he never responds.
Honestly I would be doing anything in my power to help this guy out but I have no idea who he is or how to reach him.
Our safety lies in being vocal and organized. Vox is one of our stars, we need to protect him and he needs to help us by organizing with us and cross coordinating with other activists.
Anyway I think he should be fine as far as the law is concerned. I have contacted an attorney and had him look at the site to surmise whether he is in violation of the law. The opinion was that he is within his rights and safe from prosecution.
If anyone would like to work on a 9-11 truth anti-bush media project please visit globalfreepress.com to learn more.
Posted by Wat Tyler @ 12/18/2002 06:36 PM EST
Found this on the Seattle Indymedia site. Thought you should know...
The Nightmare is here
by Phillip Clarendon 2:49pm Wed Dec 18 '02
I have been following the voxnyc.com news site now for a while (Very Closely) A strange thing happened just prior to the raid. Voxfux had been having a "back and fourth" with a real belligerent jerk who had been posting under the name "Unknown Soldier" Vox had essentially tracked his usage to a number of postings by this same jerk. Then vox's final exchange was that this guy was spoofing his IP (which only hackers and intelligence agents do) Since this jerk "Unknown Soldier" is no hacker then maybe...
You get the drift.
Then Vox announced that this guy was operating on rasserver.net which is a VERY SUSPICIOUS internet company. With a strange kind of administration which never responds to any complaints about it's many violations regarding some illegal activity it undertakes on a daily basis. Also rasserver.net seems immune to any Internet authorities' regarding their constant and flagrant violations of common Internet rules and regulations.
Vox indicating that rasserver could be an organ of the CIA.
Then he looked into rasserver's parent company ICG and discovered that ICG Communications Inc had decended into bankrupcy just days after Bush siezed the presidency. Hmmm.
He accused ICG Communications Inc of being possibly the next Enron scandal, only this time Vox has claimed that ICG was actually taken over by an intelligence group (CIA or EX CIA) and that it had undertaken a scheme to drive the stock price into the ground, only to rip off investors, and then when the stock reached rock bottom they bought up the stock and are now poised to become fabulously wealthy.
Apparently they drove the stock price from 36 dollars to 36 cents.
Then vox mentioned something about the CEO's involved with ICG were intelligence assets. The new CEO is in fact a Jesuit (Graduated from LOYOLA university which specializes in Intellegence, political, industrial economic intelligence.
The strange thing is that there is no trace of that exchange that was on vox's web site. What is even stranger is that this "Unknown Soldier" Who vox pointed out also posts under the name "Soaring Eagle" This Soaring Eagle posted a very spooky veiled threat (simultaneously as the raid proceeded) which is still up on the site it is a passage from George Orwell's 1984 about Big Brothers ability to obliterate every trace of a persons life so that no one would ever know that he existed.
I for one checked out the ICG Communications story and it does indeed look VERY FISHY.
I believe the Bush threat is just a pretext, the real reason for the raid might be the ICG Communications story, which as I said has mysteriously dissappeared from the voxnyc website.
Posted by Richard Wellington @ 12/18/2002 07:26 PM EST
The Coercive Effect Of Social Conditioning
"Most of human history (with the exception of some primitive societies) is characterised by the fact that a small minority has ruled over and exploited the majority of its fellows. In order to do so, the minority has usually used force; but force is not enough. In the long run, the majority has had to accept its own exploitation voluntarily-and this is only possible if its mind has been filled with all sorts of lies and fictions, justifying and explaining its acceptance of the minorities rule... the effect of society is not only to funnel fictions into our consciousness, but also to prevent the awareness of reality."...Eric Fromm
Posted by Alfonzo @ 12/18/2002 07:33 PM EST
dear wat: understood... does anyone have any historical information on vox, his career, education, religious beliefs, etc.? i could take that info and write a compelling, interesting essay (tied in with other current poltical themes -- counter and otherwise), and submit it to rense and others for consideration. it would be clear, eloquent, suble, but dynamic; not as one-dimensional as the things I (we?) have submitted so far. it would have a real'human', personal quality to it. i would, of course, post the draft here for feedback before submitting.
if anyone's interested in collaborating or has suggestions on how to further our goal, please let me know more.
thx - manon_lachasseuse@yahoo.com
Posted by manon_lachasseuse @ 12/18/2002 09:16 PM EST
richard: does the part that is missing still remain on the mirror site?
Posted by manon @ 12/18/2002 09:22 PM EST
it must be taken under consideration, that the government can build a web site much like this, and express very anti government views and gather a following, who trust that particular webmaster and not know anything about him, and exchange views back and forth much like this forum, and some may even give details of their personal life email adresses and more. This could serve as a means of keeping an eye on people and what they think, and even possibly know who they are and where they live. It also serves to provoke people to "lets do something" and in turn give the government an excuse to 1. take away the freedom that the internet has given people for so long, 2. brand people as "terrorists" who otherwise would not have expressed their views even though they do hold very anti government feelings.3. scare the shit out of people, and fear does wonders. Not saying this site is part of such experiment, but its an interesting thing to think about
Posted by Jason @ 12/18/2002 10:46 PM EST
dunno if anyone has written about this, but www.propagandamatrix.com seems to care about the vox dissapearance
Posted by jason @ 12/18/2002 11:20 PM EST
Jason, I have been considering such a scenario for quite some time now. It is indeed a handy way for an intelligence organization to keep tabs on dissenters.
It is also a way to take legitimate information, and make it illegitimate to the masses by posting on a "conspiracy" site. In such a way, you can mask reality by pointing to a site such as this and blame the "paranoid few" for such insane fabrications.
Posted by Cautious @ 12/18/2002 11:42 PM EST
Posted by valis @ 12/19/2002 12:09 AM EST
the ICG Communications story is not on the mirrorsite http://lightscion.com/VoxNYC_MIRROR.htm
must have been taken off before. did anyone copypaste the article?
good thing www.propagandamatrix.com is with us. spread the word. vox's silence is not normal.
Posted by flow @ 12/19/2002 02:30 AM EST
in the meantime: re-check vox's great article on the congressional vote fraud.
- - -
the more you try to silence us, the louder we will cry. the more you try to disperse us, the more we will unite.
Posted by flow @ 12/19/2002 02:35 AM EST
http://www.voxnyc.com/archives/00000058.htm
http://www.voxnyc.com/archives/00000051.htm
Posted by flow @ 12/19/2002 02:39 AM EST
Genocide:
http://thepowerhour.com/postings-four/More-Evidence-of-Genocide-Agenda.htm
Subject: Cobden Club Memo Circulated at ECO-92 EARTH CHARTER: More Evidence of Genocide Agenda:
From: John Hammell jham@iahf.com
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:30:02 -0400
http://www.trufax.org/reports/cobden.html
GWS Explanation Return to Biological Manipulation Menu
CONFIDENTIAL
COBDEN CLUBS
Secretariat for World Order
814-631-9959
September 20, 1991
INITIATIVE FOR ECO-92 EARTH CHARTER
1. THE PRESSING NEED
a. The time is pressing. The Club of Rome was founded in 1968, Limits to Growth was written in 1971, Global 2000 was written in 1979, but insufficient progress has been made in population reduction.
b. Given global instabilities, including those in the former Soviet bloc, the need for firm control of world technology, weaponry, and natural resources, is now absolutely mandatory. The immediate reduction of world population, according to the mid-1970's recommendation of the Draper Fund, must be immediately affected.
c. The present vast overpopulation, now far beyond the world carrying capacity, cannot be answered by future reductions in the birth rate due to contraception, sterilization and abortion, but must be met in the present by the reduction of numbers presently existing. This must be done by whatever means necessary.
d. The issue is falsely debated between a political and a cultural approach to population and resources, when in fact, faced with stubborn obstruction and day-to-day political expediency which make most of the leaders of the most populous poor countries unreliable, the issue is compulsory cooperation.
e. Compulsory cooperation is not debatable with 166 nations, most of whose leaders are irresolute, conditioned by localist "cultures," and lacking appropriate notions of the New World Order. Debate means delay and forfeiture of our goals and purpose.
CONFIDENTIAL
f. The U.N. action against Iraq proves conclusively that resolute action on our part can sway other leaders to go along with the necessary program. The Iraq action proves that the aura of power can be projected and sustained and that the wave of history is sweeping forward.
2. PERILS TO BE HEEDED
There is a two-fold opposition which must be eliminated by quick action. There are rumblings among some of the "South" regions, notably Brazil and Malaysia, to thwart the aims of the UNCED Earth Charter and to thwart the international gathering in Brazil in June 1992. There is also the unfortunate vacillation in our own ranks, an argument that the
UNCED leaders have made the agenda "too political" and that the way must first be prepared on a less abrasive cultural basis. We present only the most recent evidence:
* Gilberto Melio Mourao, the Brazilian writer, warned in the August 4 Folha de Sao Paulo that in Munich in 1938, "it won't against the current type of ecological epidemic, unleashed against our country, which threatens the structure of our cultural, spiritual and political values, and against our very national sovereignty .... Messrs. Chamberlain and Daladier, heads of the governments of England and France, calmly offered the Brazilian Amazon to the Fuehrer." Hitler reportedly observed that since the Amazon was in South American, the United States would cite the Monroe Doctrine and reject a German occupation of Brazilian territory. Chamberlain and Daladier responded that the proposal had Washington's backing.
* The U.N. Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) issued its annual report September 16th, declaring, according to BBC, that the liberal free market is not an appropriate model for developing nations. Finance should serve industry, not the other way around, and government has a key role to play in certain sectors of the economy.
3. WHAT THE WORLDWIDE FUND FOR NATURE IS SAYING
* An official of the World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF) said September 10th that the Geneva UNCED results were "absolutely a serious setback." There will be no convention on forests by June 1992 for Brazil. The situation has reached a deadlock. This is the first casualty for the UNCED process.
* A senior advisor on ecological affairs to Britain's Prince Philip said September 15th that Eco-92 organizer Maurice Strong had "over politicized" the issue of environmentalism and had raised "ridiculously messianic expectations."
CONFIDENTIAL
THEREFORE THE FOLLOWING POLICY MUST BE IMPLEMENTED:
A. The Security Council of the U.N. led by the Anglo-Saxon Major Nation Powers, will decree that henceforth, the Security Council will inform all nations that its suffrance on population has ended, that all nations have quotas for population reduction on a yearly basis, which will be enforced by the Security Council by selective or total embargo of credit, items of trade including food and medicine, or by military force, when required.
B. The Security Council of the U.N. will inform all nations that outmoded notions of national sovereignty will be discarded and that the Security Council has complete legal, military and econonomic jurisdiction in any region in the world and that this will be enforced by the Major Nations of the Security Council.
C. The Security Council of the U.N. will take possession of all natural resources, including the watersheds and great forests, to be used and preserved for the good of the Major Nations of the Security Council.
D. The Security Council of the U.N. will explain that not all races and peoples ara equal, nor should they be. Those races proven superior by superior achievements ought to rule the lesser races, caring for them on suffrance that they cooperate with the Security Council. Decision making, including banking, trade, currency rates and economic development plans, will be made in stewardship by the Major Nations.
E. All of the above constitute the New World Order, in which Order, all nations, regions, and races will cooperate with the decisions of the Major Nations of the Security Council.
The purpose of this document is to demonstrate that action delayed could well be fatal. All could be lost if mere opposition by minor races is tolerated and the unfortunate vacillations of our closest comrades is cause for our hesitations. Open declaration of intent followed by decisive force is the final solution. This must be done before any shock hits our financial markets, tarnishing our credibility and perhaps diminishing our force.
- - - -
END OF DOCUMENT
The above document was passed out at the ECO meeting, and we eventually received a copy after almost two years had transpired. We feel that the above document provides sufficient information as to the design of the NWO relative to world population. The telephone number was attempted and found to be associated with Senator Gephardt.
All of the eliets are working to exterminate most of us "secon rate", "fodder units", "useless eaters", and non-Caucasians. I will not turn the other cheek. Will you?
Resist the eliets' genocide program.
Peace, courage, joy,
Jon Carl Skoglund
"God gave a free man a clearing in the forest."
Posted by Free Man @ 12/19/2002 03:39 AM EST
as for the flesh eating virus and hep-a there was a wonderful post on rense yesterday about the amazing properties of the healing clays. bentonite and pascalite clays are curing anything from acne to the flesh eating virus. not to mention has wonderful toxin removingt properties which makes it of special interest to us agent orangers. clay eating goes way back in antiquity before recorded history. check it out:
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/clay.htm
Posted by loner @ 12/19/2002 05:21 AM EST
i was part of the phoenix program in nam in 1966. i can tell you what we are seeing is the intiation of the phoenix program here in the usa, the hen has come home to roost.
for those who don't know the phoenix programs MO it's to rule by terror. illegal detentions, assassinations, torture, etc. hang on kids we are going to pay the price for all those carefree years of consumerism. now we pay for letting our "betters" govern our lives. Gitmo(Guantanamo) is the wave of the future unless we follow the edicts of the much trampled on 2nd ammendment. which by the way is not the 'right' to shoot deers, but DUTY to bear arms vs the gov in the event it become a tyranny.
Posted by loner @ 12/19/2002 05:38 AM EST
Loner - LOL! - it already is a tyranny, as you well know. But you are right, Phoenix redux, and then some. Goebbels would have been proud.
Posted by andy @ 12/19/2002 05:50 AM EST
If unkownsoldier is a spook then it is no wonder the US gets its ass kicked in the intel game.
He writes like an eight-year-old.
I feel sorry for anyone in the position of having to defend a monkey like Bush. I could not do it no matter what my political beliefs were. It would just be too embarrassing. Every other word out of Shrubs smirky mouth is some sort of gaff. Then there is clearly illogical policy that he tries to promote. Add to that the obvious lies and fabrications.
It would just be too much. How could you respect yourself?
Anyway Vox needs to come forward and organize with us. I can't see how he can go on trying to pretend he is in the witness protection program. That course only serves to
A. Endanger him to the people who want him to shut up (Lets face it they know where to find him.
B. Raise suspicion among those who support him that he is a front for the very people he is trying to reach.
Come out of the closet Vox! You are either a hero or a fraud and it is time you took a stand!
Many of us will back you and your notoriety will protect you from being snuffed. As it stands they could kill you and no one would know anything about it.
Call Lenny at INN, Stephen at GNN or the publishers of The Shadow. There are many groups who will support you if you let them.
You can always be a guest on our show at globalfreepress.com.
Let us know you are ok and if we can help you!
Posted by Wat Tyler @ 12/19/2002 05:52 AM EST
christ people, you are all pathetic,
"oh, no vox is gone, who will lead us now?"
has ha not taught you anything, he's been seeing this coming for ages, and he's warned you. now listen to yourselves, like a flock of lost stupid sheep baaing away for your shepard to take you off the scary mountain, if you follow the shepard he'll only bring you up the mountain again the next day, sometimes you have to think for yourselves and not submit to another person. TIME IS RUNNING OUT, stand on street corners with placards, tell people what is going on. the mass media is all sown up. Nothing usefull comes out from there. if people start to notice a major difference between what their neighbours and friends are saying and the media is telling them then they'll wake up. think back to the journey you walked/stumbeled on to get here now. i'll wager some of you thought you were going crazy for a while. ignore unblown shoulder, he's just a kid getting his kicks winding you up. THIS IS SERIOUS PEOPLE.
Posted by robbie @ 12/19/2002 07:19 AM EST
How True.
It's no use "PREACHING TO THE CONVERTED".
Hey, I too have been checking this forum more often than not lately but seriously folks.......If you're not breaking "sleepers" on a regular basis then this forum is rendered a chat room.
Take a break....stretch...go for a walk .....Talk about it with someone new.
You'll feel better.
Posted by Siren @ 12/19/2002 07:41 AM EST
"PATRIOTISM"
"Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. "Patriotism" is its cult. I mean that attitude which puts the own nation above humanity, above the principles of truth and justice, not the loving interest in one's own nation, which is the concern with the nation's spritual as much as with its materal welfare--never with its power over other nations. Just as love for one individual which excludes the love of others is not love, love for ones country which is not part of one's love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship."...Eric Fromm
"Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idocy."...George Bernard Shaw
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."...Samual Johnson
"No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion and all-around hell-rasing remain the true duty of Patriots."...Barbara Ehrenrich
Posted by Alfonzo @ 12/19/2002 08:24 AM EST
robbie: you do not comprehend what we are saying here. we don't need anyone to 'lead' us. that's b.s. ... we are MERELY CONCERNED for somebody we feel an allegiance to and would like to help, if at all possible. any of us here could and may will do the same thing as vox if the need arises. the resistance will go on with or without vox, but i (we) want to help him if at all possible. kapish? (sp?)
one thing i do wholeheartedly agree with is your assessment that we need to GET VERY ACTIVE. go outside, get off our computer-asses and really make a difference. enough of this constant bickering or validating of our egos and thoughts. we need to take what we know and use it.
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/19/2002 08:27 AM EST
sombody up above had this commentary:
"it must be taken under consideration, that the government can build a web site much like this, and express very anti government views and gather a following, who trust that particular webmaster and not know anything about him, and exchange views back and forth much like this forum, and some may even give details of their personal life email adresses and more. This could serve as a means of keeping an eye on people and what they think, and even possibly know who they are and where they live. It also serves to provoke people to "lets do something" and in turn give the government an excuse to 1. take away the freedom that the internet has given people for so long, 2. brand people as "terrorists" who otherwise would not have expressed their views even though they do hold very anti government feelings.3. scare the shit out of people, and fear does wonders. Not saying this site is part of such experiment, but its an interesting thing to think about"
my comment: i don't think vox is one of those, because he's too cool. innately cool people don't hang out with the geeks. geeks are feds.
rense may be a fed, though. what a geek.
Posted by blue_sta @ 12/19/2002 08:34 AM EST
While I have had it out with Unknown "soilder" before, I don't think he is an intel agent. Intel agents can spell and pretend to be on your side, not against you.
Posted by Known Speller @ 12/19/2002 08:45 AM EST
soldier: maybe vox has other moderators? but what you say is a possibility; he could be a fed or he could be a psycopath. anything's possible.
but, i doubt it. he's just too...cool.
baaaaaaaa....
Posted by unknown sheep @ 12/19/2002 09:22 AM EST
rense is pretty much main stream now, nowhere near as many posts as whatreallyhappened per day. icke has been turned, and so damn subtely he probally hasn't seen it himself. i hear what you are saying about being concerned for vox, i do emphasise 'cos his replies to sheeple were always so damn cutting and left no room for argument.
however, you can be pretty damn sure that this site is being logged in at least NSA and my dear own british MI6 offices, but as long as no-one advocates violence to anoyone else espicially the pRESIDENT they can't touch you. All we can do is share the truth, and this has been a great place to do that, askmorequestions has some great research he's shared here.
if you are down and feel the jack booted thugs are going to be kicking your door's down next, then chill. TPTS have missed the point, and in the final reckoning they are going to have some serious explaining to do. If you allow them to turn your world into a fearful little place then you will be dragged down to their level of consiousness.
truth and love is all we have, everything else is just window dressing.
Posted by robbie @ 12/19/2002 09:23 AM EST
log times are all screwed, there's really 8 hours between my posts today. 1728GMT
Posted by robbie @ 12/19/2002 09:29 AM EST
i agree with your all of your assessments. especially about rense and icke. they're a part of the machine (au film "brazil"). that's what i liked about vox. maybe he was radical, but he didn't sell-out. at least, that's what i say now.
hey, if vox comes back and starts to "sell out" - you'll know he's a clone ;-)
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/19/2002 09:34 AM EST
For those of you think Rense is somehow on "our side", I would point to a classic example of the racist bs he routinely posts. Check out the Shut Up and Sit Down, Trent link that is currently high on the link list, if you don't believe me. For a "New Age Democrat", Rense is often fairly one-sided in his posts on racial issues. Don't get me wrong, I love his site, love freedom of speech, rely on his links on many issues, and will continue to visit it. However, I would not expect him to be someone to rely on for anything. When was the last time he posted a link on the suffering in Africa or Mexico from the point of view of a non-white person? Unheard of on Rense. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Posted by Known Speller @ 12/19/2002 09:37 AM EST
One other thing. ICG is the shittiest CLEC of all time. The thought that they would be capable of ANYTHING seems incredible.
Posted by Known Speller @ 12/19/2002 10:17 AM EST
1. Everyone has the Strep A virus on them, this is common fact.
2. Smallpox, even in small doses cause rupturing of blood vessels, in all areas of the body.
3. Strep A needs a way into the blood stream in order for the carrier to start experiencing symptoms.
4. Strep A is what can mutate into the flesh eating bacteria.
What is the missing link, some form of antibiotic, one that is usually given to someone who's immune system is running low, and needs help.
During this time the pateint merely seems to be getting better because the virus has temporarily stopped eating the carrier and started eating the anitbiotic.
After the bacteria, which reproduces at an unprecidented rate, eat the antibiotic it then mutates through new generations of Flesh eating bacteria.
You cannot just put mud on your body to heal this shit, after it turns from Strep A to Flesh Eating Bacteria, you have less then 12-72 hours to live, in which, if and only if your lucky enough fro your doctor to even recognize it, you then have to have all the infected flesh removed to anywhere from an inch (1") to serveral Inches into healthy uninfected flesh.
This means that by the time your fingers start to hurt and turn color the doctor is going to have to remove, i.e. AMPUTATE, your hand, then your arm all the way back to your shoulder.
THERE IS NO CURE!!!
recap
Strep A + (cellular rupturing desease, exp: Smallpox) + (even the most strongest anti-biotics know to man, even the ones that can almost kill a person) = Uncurable, Unstoppable, Flesh Eating Bacteria
Do a search on it, and take a long hard look at what it does to you.
As a shamna who believes in natural medicine, THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN BE DONE, SANS COMPLETE AMPUTATION OF INFECTED AREA, THAT WILL STOP THIS DESEASE!!!
Remeber the whole reason this shit forms in the first place is because it can mutate from eating any type of antibiotic.
Braski~
Once you start seeing the pictures of this shit at work perhaps you'll all start to take it a bit more serious.
95% of the entire earth population is to be wiped out.
Posted by braski~ @ 12/19/2002 10:23 AM EST
Secret Service Intercepted Michael Moore’s Email and Searched His Home Without A Warrant
( The Story of a Vietnam Vet Caught in a Government / Celebrity Surveillance Crossfire )
Exclusive print-publication interview/story
by Tom Flocco
December 17, 2002
In a not-so-cryptic “message” eventually intended for all U.S. citizens -- but likely one very famous American in particular, three armed U.S. Secret Service agents and a local sheriff employed psychological intimidation to invade the privacy of retired U.S. Navy Chief Petty Officer Michael Moore, 49, of Goldston, North Carolina at his home on December 10, 2002.
In another warning sign of what lies ahead for all Americans regarding police-state abuse of power (thanks to sections of the post-September 11 “Patriot Act” approved by Congress and signed into law by President Bush), U.S. Intelligence intercepted North Carolinian Michael Moore’s email -- likely believing it was written by independent film producer-icon (“Bowling for Columbine”) and author (“Stupid White Men”) Michael Moore. In other words, they got the wrong Michael Moore.
The Michael Moore raided by the Secret Service last week is a 20-year war veteran who put his life on the line for his country during two separate tours of duty aboard the U.S.S. Paul Revere off the coast of Vietnam in 1971 and 1972 -- one of which was a highly dangerous mine-sweeping operation.
Finding a few controversial albeit First Amendment-protected words in the Navy vet’s email, the Intelligence agents apparently decided to kill two birds with one stone:
1) intimidate the former Vietnam veteran into allowing them to violate his personal privacy by performing a search of his home while knowing the story would reach the public -- thereby inculcating citizen fear of government power, and 2) send a veiled “message” to fervent presidential-critic and celebrity Michael Moore to let him know what lies down the road for him should his high-profile and media-oriented presidential disdain persist.
There are no reports yet as to whether Michael Moore, the film and book luminary, will join the Navy vet with his appellation to promulgate a legal inquiry into how various sections of the Patriot Act are abused by government officials in order to intimidate and distress the citizenry. That may require the services of a constitutional attorney as valiant as the two Moores will need to be.
According to Moore -- the North Carolinian who served in Vietnam, the Secret Service agents informed him that “they work with the FBI and National Security Agency (NSA) jointly on national security issues” -- all of which was exclusively reported yesterday via the probingly perceptive questioning of Meria Heller during a live interview on her Meria Heller Internet Show.
One of the agents told Moore that they had “intercepted his email written to an online friend expressing his outrage over the recent election results and that he had called President Bush ‘Satan -- the third anti-Christ,’ and a ‘Communist Republican,’ ” among other soubriquets.
In a special-report/email posted on Tom Flocco.com from his online friend “BlackBear,” the 20-year war veteran revealed that the agents said that they “had to access my email to see if I posed a national security risk to the President -- who I now call the ‘Bush-Whacker.’ ”
The Secret Service agents and the local sheriff -- all displaying side-arms -- wanted more, however -- a portent of police-state prospects facing all Americans. They asked Michael Moore if they could enter his home because they “wanted to ask him some questions and fill out forms for about a half hour -- which turned into more than an hour.”
Moore said “they asked me what kind of drugs I am on, and where they could contact my ex-wife,” adding that “they also required that I sign a form permitting them to access all my medical history in the San Diego and Raleigh-Durham Veteran’s hospitals.”
“I was in shock and intimidated,” he told us in a phone interview last night, adding “I just cooperated in order to get them out of my home as soon as possible.”
Curiously, the next series of questions became all the more abusive to Moore as he began to realize that “if the agents were already intercepting my email, they undoubtedly also had total prior access to my military occupational specialty (MOS) records, and other personal information not available to other citizens -- before they even entered my home.”
“I was also upset when they asked for the names, addresses, and phone numbers of all my family,” the Navy vet continued: “They wanted to know if I had a history of mental illness, what I thought about assassinations, if I was going to Washington, DC to shoot the President, when was the last time I was out-of-state, whether I had sniper training in the military, what work I did in the Navy, and if I had a grudge against the Navy, etc.”
His close friend, BlackBear, said "Here is a guy who called me and asked if I would come to Goldston the first Saturday in November when the tiny town hosted the First Annual Chatham County Veterans Day Parade in which Mike Moore proudly donned his Chief Petty Officer's uniform and marched in the parade, passing out miniature American flags to the spectators."
Moore was adamant when he told us “they point-blank asked me if I was going to Washington to shoot the President -- after they had already intercepted the email I wrote to my friend saying that ‘under no circumstances would I ever leave my house until the Democrats regained control of the White House,’ ” adding “they knew I wasn’t going anywhere.”
“They literally raped my mind -- psychologically,” he said.
But the intimidation didn’t stop there. The soldier with a well-known name added, “They wrote down information from my military Retiree’s I.D., my driver’s license, and my vehicle license plate number.” (Information they already possessed before they even made the decision to pay Michael Moore a visit.)
In another abuse of his rights against unwanted search without a warrant, Moore revealed that “the local Sheriff (who accompanied the agents into his home) and one other agent wandered throughout my house while I was being interviewed by one of the other Secret Service agents in my dining room.”
One wonders whether legislators would even do anything about such abuse of power -- given the current state of affairs.
“Feeling that I had been psychologically raped by these government agents, I was also intimidated into allowing them to take four Polaroid pictures of me, after they asked me not to go to Washington, DC in the future.”
The strange irony of this disturbing, Patriot Act-enabled incident is that Michael Moore the celebrity is very likely the real person to which the Secret Service, FBI, and NSA was issuing a warning.
Many Americans already know that taxpayer-funded echelon satellites regularly monitor phone calls, movements, and electronic communications of American citizens on “the list” of dissenting individuals who protest the loss of individual rights and freedoms which have accompanied the current administration -- even patriotic, law-abiding, military veterans who have faithfully served their country, government “chicken-hawks” notwithstanding.
The real question is whether the two Michael Moores will test the abuse of power in a court of law.
Abuse of power used to be an impeachable offense. And if a Vietnam vet like Michael Moore had Secret Service agents visit him, question him, and search his home when they already had access to the very information they were requiring from him in his home, is it likely that other far more out-spoken individuals like 9/11 victim-family activists Kristen Breitweiser, Ellen Mariani, and Stephen Push are being monitored too.
And what about other Americans, famous or not, who are critical of the loss of their individual freedoms in verbal interviews and written stories, or when they communicate with one another in what used to be personal emails -- or when they make what used to be personal phone calls?
The only difference with Breitweiser, Mariani, and Push is that government agencies will not violate them personally in their homes like Michael Moore. That would be too damaging politically -- given their high profile. Theirs will be a more subtle and clandestine administration-sponsored scrutiny, thanks to a secret court in Baltimore.
More reasonably, they can expect that their phone calls and emails are being quietly monitored since these brave Americans -- like celebrity Moore and his film ventures -- are in the vanguard of those who could do the most political harm to certain government officials.
By exposing corruption through the art of film-making, pressing for the testimony of high-ranking officials, or demonstrating for subpoenas of suppressed yet crucial FBI, CIA and presidential briefing documents, these individuals are a real threat to uncover the truth of 9/11’s events and its unanswered questions.
For just like the famous Michael Moore with his movies and books, and Michael Moore the war veteran from North Carolina, these 9/11 victim-family members are also protesting in their own way.
They are expressing dissent about the current congressional cover-up of the events of September 11 and the efforts of the administration to appoint “independent” investigators who will sabotage their private or legal efforts to unlock the unanswered secrets to the 9/11 questions.
Asked how he would handle the same situation if Secret Service agents ever knock on his door again: “I would never let them into my home again without a valid, notarized search warrant issued by a judge; and if I am forced to let them in, I will have a camera ready at the door to take their picture, just like they took mine,” replied Moore.
“What kind of democracy is this in our ‘so-called’ great nation when we cannot even write an email message without the fear of our government intercepting it and then being violently raped through an intense personal interrogation,” Moore added, as the interview concluded.
While we will wait with anticipation to hear the reaction to this story by the OTHER Michael Moore, we can envision another inimitable, unique tour d’ force film-production complete with hovering helicopters, secret agents, listening devises, home searches, surveillance cameras, and neighbors spying on one another -- all part of the new Bush Administration Americana and secrecy with which we are becoming acquainted.
Tragic? Yes. Unavoidable? Of course not. You see, the rest of the world is watching to see whether the Breitweisers, Marianis, Pushes, and Moores of America have the endurance to keep fighting back and pressing on. It won’t be easy -- given the “oil-soaked, energy-grabbing, spy-riddled monopoly press” (to coin a Sherman Skolnick phrase) -- who are providing cover for much of the corruption and abuse of power which never reaches the sensibilities of Joe Six-pack. They will need help from other patriots.
But Michael Moore -- the Navy vet -- couldn’t resist reiterating just one “more” dig that he had stated earlier during Meria Heller’s exclusive and live internet dialogue yesterday: “The ordeal I had to go through seven days ago is THE prime example and proof of our democracy in the ‘Republic of the Divided States of America.’ ”
And with that, we could hear in the background the mesmerizing and melodious strains of that recent Will Smith film epoch: “Here come the Men in Black -- galaxy defenders!”
Right.
Posted by 2012 @ 12/19/2002 11:26 AM EST
unknown soldier talks so sexy. i'd like a good spanking from him.
Posted by meow_mix @ 12/19/2002 11:36 AM EST
If it wiil help, the voxnyc site is regestered to Chris Broder of Vox Information Services.
Posted by lastmanstanding @ 12/19/2002 12:09 PM EST
thanks, lastmanstanding.
with these people we must assume the worst and act upon it, there is no reason for complacency or idleness. If I were in NY (I'm not even in the US), I would go to every police station downtown, to the city mayor, to rights activists, to everyone who could know something. n o f e a r ! ! !
I'm not an American, but it took me a whole day to mirror vox's website. i'm expecting at least the same effort from genuine Americans. we love you guys ! don't let us down!
Posted by flow @ 12/19/2002 12:43 PM EST
thx lastmanstanding
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/19/2002 12:43 PM EST
Say Flesh Eating Bacteria dude -- still at it, eh?
Look, if you're going to keep trying to scare the bejesus out of the few who don't scroll past your rants, you're going to have to get your facts straight. I do fear that even with your facts straight you'll still come off like a wide-eyed giggly dweeb, but that's your burden.
First off, Strep A is a bacteria, not a virus.
Secondly, bacteria do not eat antibiotics and mutate like Pac-Man eating the big dots. Antibiotics don't even kill bacteria. They simply prevent the formation of progeny when a bacteria attempts to divide. The mutations arise because a given antibiotic is generally 99.999% effective at preventing progeny formation. The remaining 0.001% are, through a random genetic difference from the rest of the bacteria, impervious to that particular antibiotic. 0.001% is not much, but if you're starting with, say, 10,000,000 bacteria and kill 99.999%, you've still got 10,000 that can divide even in the presence of the antibiotic. Thing is, if your body was having trouble eliminating 10,000,000 cells, it can usually corral the infection when the numbers are reduced to 10,000. That's how it works.
Now, to be the flesh eating variety, multiple random genetic mutations must take place in a sufficient amount of your strep A load to make these bacteria the super-killers. These mutations must take place IN ADDITION TO the mutation rendering the bacteria resistant to, say, penicillin, or whatever antibiotic your doctor first prescribes. IF this trillions-to-one event happens inside of you, the simplest thing to do would be to simply use a different antibiotic and kill 99.999% of these already improbable bacteria. Use of a third antibiotic would kill 99.999% of the remainder. While it helps if you have a fully functional immune system, usually even immunocompromised people (ie AIDS patients or folks on radiation therapy) can deal with the reduced bacterial load that antibiotics can provide.
If all of this fails...yes, amputation or skin removal may be in order.
Bottom line is, the 95% of the population you seem so worried about can sleep just fine tonight.
Hope this helps!!!
Posted by Question @ 12/19/2002 01:30 PM EST
I see Unblown Mulder has had little success with his wind-up campaign.
For the twerps that think that the person can't spell and/or use grammar, think about it, a fed would do exactly that if they were trawling for ISP addresses. Frankly I wouldn't worry, you've all been echelon'ed to the hilt already I would guess, and you are doing nothing wrong now.
It seems to me that word has got out to internet activists in the USA - let's see what they are made of re: a thorough article on this developing fiasco.
I also see Rense is zipped on this.
Posted by andy @ 12/19/2002 01:35 PM EST
Andy, you need to take a reality check. Even if he is a fed, why would he need to post here to troll for ISP addresses? If echelon-type devices are in play, why would you need to troll for posts? They would show up the instant someone went to the website, dumbass.
Posted by Known Speller @ 12/19/2002 01:50 PM EST
Im no govt. agent hell I can't even spell.I just get my kicks to come in here and read all the conspiracies. Some of you folks crack me up. This is cheap entertainment I'm thinking of writing a book and putting some of your messages in it.Except I will have a ghostwriter because I can't spell.So relax and if your phone clicks while your talking on it rest assured It's not the Soldier.If your phone rings and no ones there It's not the soldier.Even if your computer runs extremely slow you can be certain Soldiers not involved.So have a peacful nights sleep on me I'll watch out to make sure no NWO or flesh eatin buga boos come marching down main street America Soldier is on duty.
Make no mistake about it this jerk is the same person who posts under the name soaring eagle. Which means this filth IS DEFINITELY with the group who did the raid. The Orwell quote timed exactly as the raid occured was as subtle as bull in a china shop. This is the same guy who posts obscenities such as "All liberals should have a rusty pipe shoved up their asses." I guarantee you all that this retarded pig can barely lift his large ass out of his chair much less come after a feral cat like me.
So a big hearty "Fuck You" goes out to the retard from rasserver.net (Unknown Soldier, Soaring Eagle) We'll see who wins...
Posted by Unknown Soldier @ 12/19/2002 02:05 PM EST
merci pour vos efforts, flow
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/19/2002 02:08 PM EST
"Andy, you need to take a reality check. Even if he is a fed, why would he need to post here to troll for ISP addresses?"
andy - KS, have you had a sense of humour lobotomy Mr/Ms/Mrs Spellcheck? As for why, hell, that is SOP, trawl and try and bring folks out of the woodwork. The feds ain't necessarily interested in ISP's per se, cause u could be at an internet cafe or college or Parliament for all I know, the technique is to annoy folks and see what happens. Am I teaching you to suck eggs?
"If echelon-type devices are in play,"
andy - Please don't call me a dumbass KS (below), the fact that you say "if", above, rebounds on your good self.
"why would you need to troll for posts? They would show up the instant someone went to the website, dumbass."
andy - see above. Furthermore, if the Unblown guy isn't a fed, he (she? TV?) generates a lot of "feedback" which is all Bo Gritz for the mill, if ya get my point.
But I thank you KS for pointing out the error of my ways.
Posted by andy @ 12/19/2002 02:13 PM EST
first of all Vox does exist, i know people who know him and have had lengthy conversations with him. he is most definitely not a fed or a hoax, he is an east village radical dude who is very pissed off and has the skills and desire to set up and run this site. how many of you posters out there could do that? and if you can--, please do it!! and stop this divisive internecine squabbling - we can never have too many of these sites-- they shut one down and we'll just throw up another-- the purpose of this discourse and Vox's anger is that our basic fundamental constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech is being seriously messed with here. None of you are disputing the facts of the Michael Moore double story, there goes the idea that a major bureau crime operation makes it into the mainstream news, you've got to be kidding on that, that is more close to what the issue is and this dialogue should be about- do any of you want to be the next Michael Moore? the only way to stop this is to talk, talk to everybody everywhere any time you can, they can screw with all of our technological means of communication BUT THEY CANNOT SHUT US UP! SPEAK OUT, SPEAK OUT LOUDLY AND CONSTANTLY THE TRUTH WILL BE HEARD! and please do it peacefully, violence only begets violence how many times do we need to learn that lesson sisters and brothers?
PEACE
POWER TO THE PEOPLE
Posted by no one @ 12/19/2002 02:45 PM EST
"Wanted job for unemployed Soldier. Dosen't mind working at night,harsh enviroments not a problem.Good with communication devices and long range optical lenses.Can fly a spooky at night.If intrested just post your ISP I will be able to contact you.Thankyou for your consideration"
andy - Hey Unblown, ever considered a career in the Postal Service?
Posted by andy @ 12/19/2002 02:46 PM EST
maybe unknown soldier is just a lonely guy. maybe he needs a friendly pet.
Posted by meow mix @ 12/19/2002 03:08 PM EST
Did you go to any of my links?
I am not here to scare the "bejesus" out of anyone.
Streph A is where necrotizing fasciitis comes from and that is a medical fact.
It forms by mutating after eating that antibiotics that are normaly given to someone experiencing Strep Throat.
There are many documented cases of people going to the doctor to get antibiotics for there sore throat only to die days later due to necrotizing fasciitis.
What you should be citing is that there are millions of people everyday who get strep throat and need antibiotics to cure.
Then maybe the questions of "why doesn't everyone get necrotizing fasciitis?"
Why indeed, an if a governmnet were to find the right combination of how and why do you not think that is would be used as biological weapon?
Perhaps what I am trying to warn people of is something very serious. Check the links. It is the most disgusting way to die, being eaten from the inside out.
THe fact that your just trying to argue typos and semantics leads me to believe there is truth to what I am saying and your just here working smoke and mirrors trying to claim that I am a "dweeb".
Ouch, being a self-employed business owner in my late 20's I am really offened.
Usually you Quin-Tel-Pro agents are better at telling me off, but this time it seems a little weak.
I merely am asking all of you who are worried about what the government is doing behind their backs to take a step back and consider the dots I have connected.
Penicillin is not the strongest anti biotic used, there are others and the first case I have ever heard of this happening it was a minister from somewhere who was over taken by strep, upon being given penicillin it did nothing and he was then given several other harcore antibiotics, latter he was eaten from the insed out by the Virus, oops I mean bacteria.
The fact is that there have been three people who died in less then a week, yet you here nothing on main stream media about the other soldiers.
They also have only mentioned breifly on CNN that it was not just Strep A that killed the soldier, but possibly toxic shock or necrotizing fasciitis.
Which if you ask me this only means they are confusing symptoms for reasons, that fact is he was in shock due to the fact that his insides were being turned into bacteria poop, i.e. he was in shock because by the time the saw visible symptoms the necrotizing fasciitis had eaten his vital organs.
And where else do you think the government is going to find willing individuals to throw themsleves onto the patriotic fire of medical testing?
NOWHERE....
So they are going to test, on unwilling cadets forced into small quartes, who have higher chance of higher levels of strep a, and then spend the rest of the time experiemnting, giving differnet people differnt antibiotics.
All a biological engineer needs is one Bacteria, one little culture and then millions of units can be produced.
I used to grow mushrooms, I now how crazy bacteria can be and I now how fast, and out of nowhere breakouts can happern and destroy cultures before the mycellia can eat the medium.
I've seen bacteria rip through cultures in less then 1 hour, I've seen them cover the culture and in gulf it, right before my eyes.
but I was, a, just growing edible mushrooms and that was another life, I wasn't doing anything illeagal of course....
8]
No one can predict where and when bacteria can form, as we are covered head to toe with billions of bateria, even when you just get out of the shower.
It just needs the right combination of enviroment and circumstance.
Perhaps instead of finding something to quickly shoot me down with you could link me to your source of info that claims otherwise, then maybe I could inform the victims and their family and friends of people who have suffered from necrotizing fasciitis, as I am sure one would win a nobel peace prize for info on the cure for necrotizing fasciitis.
Everyone knows that our government participatesw in chemical and biological warfare, ever sice we were given the original inhabitats of this stupid country smallpox laced blankets.
Appently we didn't kill all those people as once again we are going to revive a long past desease, and murder people by supposedly cure them.
Why should I care though, I have this lovely scare on my arm wher a broom hilda nurse already jabbed me mercilessly so I got a little hope already that I still have the antibodies in me.
I just don't want millions of people to have their insides turn to jelly, and have the goverment of ammerikkka blame it on a terrorist anthrax plot, as that is there plan.
After all they still blame Iraq for our poor suffering troops who returned the last mistake overseas, and that my friend was all the U.S. and there uncanny ability to maximize profits by making weapons out of toxic, radioactive waste, URANIUM.
Braski~
but hey whatever, we are all he offering opinions of our own unique perceptions of reality, hoping to saves a few of our brothers and sister from ultimate death....
after all there is no such thing, this is all an illusion.
I just hope you don't get it first, after all the government employees are always the first to be feed to the capitallist united "estates" of amerikkka machine, that why it looks better to the public and their always the last to be blamed.
and I'm more concerned about the alien lizards, after all I'm a Pan and those vampires love to bother the hell out of me..........
Posted by braski @ 12/19/2002 03:10 PM EST
"The post office isn't for me but thank you for your suggestion.It's nice to see somone trying to help their fellow man. 8-)"
andy - Post Office huh? And you are a Simper Fido yank huh? Hmmmmm... It's called it a Post Office in England, am I to conclude you are an impostor, not a yank at all but a (gulp) Brit?
"Posted by Unknown Soaring Soldier Eagle"
"Soaring Eagle" - yeah, I get it... but for a dumb-ass, sorry, Marine, that you pretended to be earlier, you are suddenly doing a U-turn.
Posted by andy @ 12/19/2002 03:10 PM EST
we're not here to discuss bacteria - just don't take no vaccine and you'll be ok.
we're here to organize a search for vox. anyone: call the NYPD, call Dem Now, call anyone from the NY press! no fear!!
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
Posted by fritzlang @ 12/19/2002 03:19 PM EST
Funny I thought we were here to warn eachother about what is going on, but if you insist I'll stop, but leave you with the following links of survivor foundations, people who were lucky enough to notice it early enough and take care off it, saddly most don't.
http://www.nnff.org/index.html
(contains links to revent military deaths in the news)
http://www.nfsuk.org.uk/
(u.k. foundation)
Just remeber Vox had this site to warn people of the upcoming future that is obvious to some but not to most, and that's why we all flocked here.
I am sure Vox can ahndle himself, remeber he wasn't there when they radied his shit.
Why?
braski~(on a mission from god)
everyone has friends in high places, we just have to pay attention when the warnings come.
And Vox is probably on a pladean ship high above the earth watching this all unfold.
Posted by braski @ 12/19/2002 03:39 PM EST
No one. Why the fuck won't Vox reply to any of my invitations to work on projects together. From your description it sounds like you are describing me. I have a website live in the EV and am dieing to coordinate with others to amplify our efforts. If you know Vox will you tell him to quit playing coy and get in touch with me? I think we can help each other.
PS Unblown, ever heard of MS word?
Posted by Wat Tyler @ 12/19/2002 03:47 PM EST
Hey, Andy, sorry for calling you a dumbass. Next time don't call me a twerp, OK? I usually don't sink to that level, but it was annoying. I don't even care about Unknown, he has been funnier than anyone, at least the last few posts. He's just a guy who obviously cares enough about his country to at least look for info, even if he doesn't agree with most of us. Also, why be shocked that this isn't all over the media? I'm sure everybody's heard about the Arab round-up in SoCal by now. But why isn't it even on CNN.com? You know the anaswer. That's 600 people and they can barely get a peep out of the mass media, not to count the countless thousands harrassed since then. I'm worried about vox, too, but he's not the only one. He knows that, too, otherwise he wouldn't have risked his ass with this site.
Posted by Known Speller @ 12/19/2002 03:53 PM EST
from Unknown News, http://www.unknownnews.net/dialogue.html
Limiting myself to ten minutes research, here's what I've found:
At Raise the Fist, there's VOXFUX - feds raid voxnyc.com Headquarters, which says: "At 10AM on Friday the 13th, A combined task force from the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, and Major Crimes Unit raided a Long Island home believed to be that of the political essayist who writes under the pen name Voxfux." Multi-force operations are usually accompanied by the mainstream media, as coverage is one of the main objectives. Perhaps not in this case, but that seems odd, and worth noting.
Also worth noting, the article appears on Raise the Fist's "post your own news" section, which means it could be an email from anyone. There's no fact-checking.
"Voxfux is represented by Norman Seigal (From NYCLU). The civil rights lawyer Ron Cuby is also involved in the discussions." Norman Siegal (not Seigal) is the former Executive Director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, who recently quit to run for public office. Ron Kuby (not Cuby) is one of America's most famous defense attorneys. Neither of these men are media shy, to put it mildly. If they were involved, there almost certainly would've been press conferences by now.
"Later in the day Vox was interviewed at an undisclosed location with Amy Goodman from the radio program Democracy Now." There's no mention of this, no mention of voxfux/voxnyc at all in the long list of contents from recent shows at the Democracy Now website.
"I saw one of his assistants who confirmed the Amy Goodman interview. She told me that Voxfux has requested that the interview NOT be aired at this time." Again, odd. The man's home is raided, but he doesn't want publicity about it.
"Neighbors were issued orders to contact the authorities upon seeing or hearing from the man believed to be behind the caustic website www.voxnyc.com."; We haven't yet reached the point where neighbors are "issued orders." If anything, neighbors were asked to contact the authorities.
The whole article reads like it's written by voxfux/voxnyc himself, or a friend, or someone who's trying to romanticize the anonymous "man believed to be behind the caustic website www.voxnyc.com.";
What looks like the same article is at memes.org, which also allows basically anyone to post basically anything.
Whatreallyhappened is, as you say, following this story. Which seems appropriate; they want to know what really happened, and so do we. As of 4AM Thursday, however, all they've done is link to the article(s) above, from Raise the Fist and Memes.
And then we have lots of comments, some skeptical, some gullible, but none from the source, at voxnyx/voxfux's open forum.
Six days after the raid is reported to have happened, and ten hours after you first brought it to our attention, I can't find anything else Googleable on this.
So, our ten minutes are up, here's what we know: The anonymous guy behind voxnyc/voxfux says his apartment was raided. And maybe it's true. If it's true, I want to know the facts, definitely. But vox doesn't want publicity.
For now, we are told in the free-published article "to tell everyone to not have fear. [Voxfux] feels like a lion and never had more resolve in his life." So, in a spirit of cooperation and comraderie, I'm telling you not to fear.
Let's all keep our eyes open for credible news about this matter, but as yet we have none.
Posted by Scott F. @ 12/19/2002 04:01 PM EST
Breaking News (note: NOT from Jeff Rense)
Subject :
Fw: voxnyc.com Raided by 40 Agents
Date :
Thu, 19 Dec 2002 15:07:51 -0800
----- Original Message -----
From: kerry hart
To: triknite
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 2:33 PM
Subject: voxnyc.com Raided by 40 Agents
This is very interesting. It was a few of you who turned me on to Vox & his website, which is a fantastic one. I spent a week recently reading his entire archive. Perhaps because his great work is fresh in my mind, this is especially upsetting. This guy is NOT a terrorist! He writes much like you and I do, and has a website that invites people to post their messages and keep up a dialogue. There are no overt or covert threats to any politicians or to our government or anyone living in this country on Vox's site, yet, here they go, nabbing him Gestapo-like when he's done nothing wrong. These stories are piling up, friends. What can we do? What must we do? Can we keep waiting for more shoes to drop? I don't pretend to know the answers to these questions. I feel we need to, at least, begin brainstorming seriously about what needs to be done instead of merely exchanging information (although that's important and needs to continue). Any ideas out there? k
voxnyc.com Raided by 40 Agents
by repost • Tuesday December 17, 2002 at 08:57 AM
This showed up this morning on the CIA-DRUGS listserv. It is reminiscent of the RaiseTheFist affair. If true, it may bode ill for dissident website operator across the country.
To: cia-drugs@yahoogroups.com
From: [redacted]
X-Yahoo-Profile: bluewave43
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 05:49:23 -0600
Subject: [CIA-DRUGS] Fwd: VoxFux Raided by 40 Agents
Subject: VoxFux Raided by 40 Agents
VOXFUX in trouble?
Dear [redacted]
Thank you for your excellent site.
At 10 oclock this morning (Dec 13) Approximately 40 agents
from a joint group of CIA, FBI, And Major Crimes unit. Surrounded my home on Long Island New York (I was not there) and entered and proceeded to conduct a thorough search and removal operation while detaining a tennant who occupuys an apartment on the premises. I am in contact with my counsel (from NYCLU) NY Civil Liberties Union. (Norm Seigal)
I will try to make a further update tommorrow. As for now
I wish someone could archive as many of the articles on my
voxnyc.com site as possible. I apologize for such a brief note
but it has been a terrible moment and I am literally on the run.
I do not wish this information to be released until after I have suitable time to consult with my counsul maybe a day or two.
Thank you
vox
http://www.libertyforum.org/show...360694&t=0
http://www.voxnyc.com
alokla/berlin
alokla777
Registered User
Posts: 172
(12/17/02 2:37:11 am)
Reply Re: VOXFUX in trouble?
At 10AM on Friday the 13th, A combined task force
from the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, and Major Crimes
Unit raided a Long Island home believed to be that of
the political essayist who writes under the pen name Voxfux.
There were simultaneous raids at several locations
throughout New York City and Brooklyn.
Voxfux is represented by Norman Seigal (From NYCLU).
The civil rights lawyer Ron Cuby is also involved in the
discussions.
Later in the day Vox was interviewed at an undisclosed
location with Amy Goodman from the radio program
Democracy Now.
There has been no formal charges presented so far. Neighbors were issued orders to contact the Authorities upon seeing or hearing from the man believed to be behind the caustic pen.
A neighbor, who wished to remain anonymous for fear of
violating any orders of the combined law enforcement effort, spoke praises of her neighbor, "There's no way he's a terrorist, he's a sweetheart, I don't believe it for one minute. I've known him for seventeen years. He's an artist and a writer. This is rediculous."
The case has the potential to be a lightening rod for civil
libertarians, coming just days after the passage of the
controversial Homeland Security Act. The articles Believed
to be penned by the mystery writer can be found at
http://www.voxnyc.com.
http://www.indymedia.org/front.p...up=webcast
BUSH IS A FRAUD
http://www.voxnyc.com/archives/00000069.htm
MASS MURDERER KISSINGER
http://www.voxnyc.com/archives/00000064.htm
ROCKEFELLER CIA KNIGHTS OF MALTA
http://www.voxnyc.com/archives/00000057.htm
ASSASSINATION STATE
http://www.voxnyc.com/archives/00000053.htm
LINCOLN ROOSEVELT KENNEDY WARN OF BUSH
http://www.voxnyc.com/archives/00000041.htm
PAUL WELLSTONE ASSASSINATED
http://www.voxnyc.com/archives/00000039.htm
"The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State
can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus
becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its
powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal
enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the TRUTH
becomes the greatest ENEMY OF THE STATE."
-- Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels
alokla/berlin
Please let us stay on topic and be civil.
To unsubscribe please go to
-Home Page- http://www.cia-drugs.org
OM
add your comments
Posted by andy @ 12/19/2002 04:04 PM EST
Wat
Don't know Vox personally, or i'd ask him, think it runs in the category of if he doesn't know you or know people who know you kind of thing-- that he isn't going there, can you dig that at all? sorry but that's the times we're living in now-- talk to some former residents of the USSR one said ' i left the soviet union when the wall was coming down and now i'm here and seeing one going back up' yes Wat you do sound like Vox, and that's good we need all the pissed off EV dudes and dudettes we can get-- i've seen your site and it's cool, thanks
so keep up the fight, we can overcome this tyranny with peace love and truth and really, really loud voices!
peace
Posted by no one @ 12/19/2002 04:15 PM EST
"Hey, Andy, sorry for calling you a dumbass. Next time don't call me a twerp, OK?"
andy - Well on a scale from 1 to 10 a dumbass is probably an 8.
A twerp, in contrast, is probably only a 4 or 5... :O))) !
But you are forgiven ;o)
"I usually don't sink to that level, but it was annoying. I don't even care about Unknown,"
andy - uh, Unblown... lets get the terminology right...
"he has been funnier than anyone, at least the last few posts. He's just a guy who obviously cares enough about his country to at least look for info, even if he doesn't agree with most of us."
andy - ok, Yes!, the, uh, Nimrod as per post no #1 or 2 on this thread was probably quite accurate, - well 10 out of 10 house points for Unblown to at least lurk ++ here and try and edumacate himself.
"Also, why be shocked that this isn't all over the media? I'm sure everybody's heard about the Arab round-up in SoCal by now. But why isn't it even on CNN.com? You know the anaswer. That's 600 people and they can barely get a peep out of the mass media, not to count the countless thousands harrassed since then. I'm worried about vox, too, but he's not the only one. He knows that, too, otherwise he wouldn't have risked his ass with this site."
andy - Well said my friend.
Posted by andy @ 12/19/2002 04:20 PM EST
andy, i can't believe rense wrote that. he was pretty curt with me (or was that one of his moderataors?). or, maybe they checked out this site and saw us bashing him. he he he...
Note, however, that he did not say he'd publish a story. just a shoulder to cry on.
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/19/2002 04:34 PM EST
andy, i misunderstood. i failed to read the "NOT" in front of "from jeff rense" part
Posted by nee hier renee demain @ 12/19/2002 04:41 PM EST
andy - NHRD - I know what you're sayin', but old Rense is a law unto himself it seems. Actually, any private emails I've exchanged with him - he has been of the utmost help, and charm itself. A real pro. So when I make this critique I am comparing the JR of maybe 5 or 6 years ago with the one today.
I still think he's a good guy, but still not 100%... if you can figure that one out. And the reason he may not be 100% now compared to 5 or 6 years ago...???
Posted by andy @ 12/19/2002 04:42 PM EST
People like Unknown Soldier and Soaring Eagle need to realize: there IS no more "Democrats" and "Republicans".Many people still fall back on "Well,When Clinton was in office...".I grow weary of it. All of that is fresh,moist HORSESHIT. Clinton's hands are just as bloodsoaked as any "Republican"'s.Wasn't the 2000 "Election" enough to wake these folks up? There is an Agenda that most don't know about,or refuse to believe.NO ONE'S VOTE REALLY COUNTED in that sham of an "election". If you voted for Bush,well,that's great,hahaha,They thought.If you voted for Gore,didn't matter,They thought.Then the "Democrats" started saying that if you voted for someone else,like Nader,you were "taking votes from Gore".All of this brouhaha was a good cover while They were depriving many of Florida's poor of their vote,knowing that most of the poor vote"Democrat" because they've been brainwashed into thinking that the "Democrats" "care more".When The Agenda comes a-knockin,those "Dems" roll over like tummy-scratched puppies.Most of them voted for war,for fear of ,like,say,their number comes up for a "tragic plane crash".Oops! In short,now that they can't even be bothered to even TRY to cover up the Agenda,it's down to Them and Us-us being the ones that better play along and allow that camera over your head and the chip in your hand.They hope that enough of us stay asleep long enough so that whe and if we do finally wake up,it'll be in some 'containment camp' somewhere in Colorado,asking the guy next to us,"What the fuck happened? "
Posted by Blindersoff @ 12/19/2002 05:19 PM EST
No one, I don't think throwing up barriers to people who want to help you is productive. Yes Vox does not "know" me but it is not as though it is hard to find out who I am or verify I am legit and not someone he should fear.
I do have a site up that he can check out as well as a TV show that can be viewed in several cities as well as on our site.
I am working with Kyle from unansweredquestions.org, Lenny from INN, GNN, Complacent.org, and a host of other groups that can vouch for my project and me.
I am not trying to come off like he should know who I am, yes I am still a nobody but not so much that he can't screen me to see if I am cool or not.
I admire his work and want to help him in the same way other groups I work with help each other.
This whole thing reminds me of an event we hosted at walker stage with the NY Green party. As the event winded down only a few people were left and a guy there freaked out when one of our camera crew people who was shooting the event (the event was for a TV show) pointed a DV cam at him. The guy tried to grab the camera and threatened to kick our camera guy’s ass if he did not hand over the tape.
We almost had to mace the guy to get him to chill out. Then we showed him that the tape had no footage of him on it.
The point is that there we were amongst people putting there balls on the line exercising their rights and helping to spread info to others and a guy who fancied himself and activists was threatening to destroy our camera because he was afraid of exposure.
It just seems silly to think that you are safe because you won't go on the record and exercise what rights we have left. It seems even less likely that you are being effective by refusing to work with others who share your goals.
Maybe Vox reads his own board and will do some checking on me so at some point we can help each other out.
I am still waiting for him to accept my invitation to buy him a drink at Max Fish.
Actually I do not remember the original offer of assistance. One problem that I have is that I get some 200 e-mails a day. Some of them so replete with great info some of them with tips and some of them with offers of finantial support, can you believe that sometimes people offering me money get no response. The reason why is that there are simply not enough hours in the day. It is nothing personal, it does not mean I am rejecting anyone, it simply means that I must sleep at least four hours a day, sometimes four hours every two days. You get the idea. I will try to get around to checking you out. It just takes time sometimes. Especially now that I am living out of different friend's houses and moving constantly.
Peace
Vox
Posted by Wat Tyler @ 12/19/2002 05:52 PM EST
looks like vox is back! wo-hoow!
that unsown clowner diss was unmistakably his!
Posted by flow @ 12/19/2002 07:19 PM EST
let's end this thread on a positive note, mr. eleven. there has been a LOT of talking, emailing, - thanks to all fighters.
vox, grab the mic! it's up to you.
Posted by fritzlang @ 12/19/2002 09:27 PM EST
How about a round of applause for Trent Lott? He just made our lives much easier by having a trifle of decency and resigning and subsequently made a lot of "sheeple" a little more suspicious of the "Republican"
party as a whole.
Could he be the first "domino"
to make the whole nightmare of the "Bush administration" collapse and go away?
The way things are going, we
may not have to wait until '04 to find out.
Posted by ANOTHER LISTENING GEEK @ 12/21/2002 05:52 AM EST
My manners elude me,
WELCOME BACK VOXFUX! glad to hear that you're O.K.
Keep on keepin on dude!
Posted by ANOTHER LISTENING GEEK @ 12/21/2002 05:57 AM EST
Amazing. Bush is a scumbag. Does anyone know where the Sept. 2001 quote came from? Why isn't the media nailing Bush for this?
Posted by gigi @ 12/23/2002 05:39 AM EST
The media is a frightened little child waiting for it's next weeks allowance from the "them".. ;)
Posted by toots @ 12/23/2002 08:59 AM EST
http://www.lemonbovril.co.uk/bushspeech/
Posted by the overseer @ 12/24/2002 11:04 PM EST
Thank god V0X ia back it's about time someone told it how it is goodluck to you vox, i am from the uk and me and my griends congratulate you for what your doing go for it, we in the uk don't agree what the idiot in the WHITE HOUSE SAY'S EITHER , THE MAN'S AN IDIOT AND THE SOONER MEONE TAKES HIM OUTTHE BETTER, PREFRABLY WITH A SILVER BULLET I AM SURE THE WOULD BE MANY TEN'S OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AROUN THE WORLD THAT WOULD BE WILLING TO TAKE THE JOB ON , BUT HURRY POPPY BUSH TOLD HIM HE GOT TO GO INTO IRAQ BEFORE FEBUARY, SO THERES NOT MUCH TIME LEFT> DELLBOY
Posted by YOU WILL NEVER KNOW @ 12/26/2002 04:03 PM EST
