If anyone saw the event on live ABC, they would have seen some longshots showing what was very clearly a small crowd. It was VERY dubious - most likely a Circus (it even appeard that the whole area was closed off for the event.) Definitely not a spontaneous event.

I saw a couple of Iraqis away from the 'crowd' holding a large banner where they had scrawled:

"Go Home US WANKER."

I smell a rat.

Posted by Cave Canem @ 04/11/2003 03:24 AM EST

Well, Vox, it seems like some
other news sources are validating
what you stated with this article!

It was indeed a closed-off area!
Obviously, a STAGED event, that
'just so happened" to be right in
front of the hotel where the press
was staying, LOL!

They forgot to mention on ABC news
that the square they were in was
surrounded by US tanks, and that
the soldiers probably outnumbered
the "Iraqi Civilians", which are
now believed to not be civilians
at all, but members of the INC!

Check out the pics on this link:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm

Yeah, MASSIVE uprising...morons...

Posted by TaoJones @ 04/11/2003 05:02 AM EST

5:54AM March 11
US Marines open fire on a van killing (liberating) two more Iraqi children. But wait a second, isn't the war over?

Posted by IntelQ @ 04/11/2003 06:04 AM EST

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=396043

US says flag incident was a 'coincidence'
By Kim Sengupta in Baghdad
11 April 2003

It was, by any measure, an astonishing coincidence. As the biggest statue of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad was pulled down "spontaneously" in front of the world's media, the Stars and Stripes which flew on the Pentagon on 11 September was at hand to be draped over its face.

The US army denied that the toppling of the 20ft edifice by a tank tower was stage-managed. It was a coincidence, they said, that Lt Tim McLaughlin, the keeper of that flag, happened to be present.

And, it has to be noted, the commander of the US marines who completed the capture of Baghdad did express concern at the time that the use of the Stars and Stripes smacked of triumphalism. It was later changed to an Iraqi flag. But not before acres of TV footage had been shot.

Yesterday, the US army banned any display of the flag on vehicles, buildings, statues and command posts, halting its display almost everywhere but the US embassy in Baghdad.

There was some suspicion that the crowd that jumped up and down on the metal carcass had been bused in from the Shia suburb of Saddam City. That was not the case, they were mostly local. But they were the same people who chanted "My blood, my spirit, I shall die for you O Saddam" – until the last day of the regime.

Flushed with victory, the marines one spoke to had no doubts about the war's justice. But when asked whether they had seen any proof of a link between al-Qa'ida and the defeated Iraqi regime, there was general puzzlement.

When one of the few remaining "human shields" in Baghdad, Uzma Bashir, from Rickmansworth, baited the troops with shouts of "Yankee murderers", Cpl Ibrahim Rahim exploded: "I scooped up the brains of two young marines ... They died fighting to liberate Iraq. And you stand here insulting them with this shit." He added: "I am a Muslim ... and I know this region. That woman is seriously abusing her right of speech."

Captain Brian Lewis, a tank commander, said: "All we are trying to do is create the conditions for representative government."

Posted by Kim Sengupta @ 00/00/ 00:00 EST

Thanks Vox for being the very first one to break the fake.
You are our resident psy-op buster.
Here's our thread on your story.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID66/17554.html

Posted by Democratic Underground @ 04/11/2003 08:16 AM EST

Another fake, hahaha.
Also see : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm

Posted by Brainwashington @ 04/11/2003 08:51 AM EST

YOU SAY: "If Iraqi tanks rolled down Pennsylvania avenue in Washington and killed Bush, there would be nearly 100 million people in the streets of America celebrating." WRONG.

Just take a look at history. Our presidents have been shot. John F. Kennedy, who was a Democrat, was shot and killed in Dallas in 1963. Both Democrats and Republicans openly wept in the streets. Wept. No one cheered.

Your statement is based in fantasy, not reality.

Posted by L. N. @ 04/11/2003 10:12 AM EST

I think you are all missing the point here. I don't think it matters at all how many Iraqis showed up for the 'big event'. Even if two Iraqis were present that would be enough. These people have not had the freedome of speech (which maybe you take for granted) and the media did paint a picture that was embellished. Shame on them for that. However that being said, you Vox seem to be just as guilty as the media you criticize. You are equally over-the-top. I have not yet heard anyone on here make reference to the Iraqi Information Officer blatantly telling lies to the Iraqi people about the status of Baghdad. I understand your anger and frustration. You are not the only one. As hard as it may be for you, maybe spend one day researching the former Iraqi President. And think about him defacating in his golden toilet while the people suffer. I will say it first Sanctions, Sanctions, Sanctions. Do some research on that as well. Saddam, his family, and the government he has put in place deserves as much of you attention as the American Government. They are both crooked. Maybe it takes a 'bad man' to take out another 'bad man' Let's just hope that Bush isn't around for too much longer......

Posted by agent99 @ 04/11/2003 01:17 PM EST

here is something for those sceptics who want some proof as to what is being charged
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2838.htm

http://electroniciraq.net/news/625.shtml
look at paragraph #8

If we as a people stop challenging what the government says or does and the media is feeding us. We may as well move to Iraq because they will have a democracy and we will be in a dictatorship.

It is a sad state of when people have to apologize for comments they make regarding something as devastating as war or the lose of our rights

Posted by didn't vote for bush @ 04/11/2003 01:24 PM EST

Deliver Us From Ignorance

What America needs is an antidote for brainwashing

A massive dome of delusion has been constructed over heads!

Now we are slaves to the media, slaves to the government's "truth"

The monkey on our backs has a sack over our heads

We are totally blinded and conditioned to accept the government's version of "truth"

It is no longer our government, but a government run by the rich and powerful

Our military nothing more than a tool for global corporations

A weapon to keep the world "safe" for their material greed

Americans are decent, hard-working and law-abiding people

They have been goaded into hate and anger and misguided by gigantic lies

The government and media cultivate a lynch-mob mentality to foster war

Then pass off this frenzy as American support for its unlawful actions

War to protect the material interests of the rich and powerful

When demand for government accountability dies out we are at the mercy of tyrants

True Americans who abide wholeheartedly by the Constitution will demand truth

Phony "patriotic" Americans will blindly accept the government's lies

Jumping on a bandwagon of national arrogance

Leaving all of us vulnerable to the abuses of power

And the destruction of our Constitution!

God Bless America, she really needs your blessing badly!

Posted by Tom @ 04/11/2003 02:14 PM EST

Yes, all of this is revolting... but what are you willing to do about it, anyway? You can bitch, you can moan, and you can wander around with a sign outside City Hall all day, but what does it do? What has changed from your actions? Nothing. Action needs to be taken; wether you are from America, Canada, Ireland, Israel; anywhere... if you know what I am talking about, drop me an e-mail so we can arrange for further group discussions.

Posted by Romanov @ 04/11/2003 02:27 PM EST

Vox..were you drunk while writing
that article , or having some kind
of breakdown?

ive read some of your stuff in
the past and i can see you are
right on the money on lots of things, but holy fuck, tone it down.

people arent going to listen to
someone having a temper tantrum.

btw, i agree it was staged. i
expected that all along.

Posted by Brocktoon @ 04/11/2003 03:15 PM EST

This so-called War on Terror is, in reality, a War on God.

Think about it, folks!

Dick Cheney--clearly demon-possessed (look into his eyes!).

G. W.: soulless.

Rumsfeld--hagridden.

Consider this simple fact: Islam is the largest monotheistic religion in the world. With over a billion (1000 x a million) adherents, it is the foremost God-fearing faith in today's world, outstripping even Christianity in sheer numbers.

Each day, a thousand million Muslims sing God's glory.

Is it any wonder that Satan wants them dead?

We've got to consider these things from a spiritual perspective.

Doubtless, our masters want the Oil.

THEIR Master, from his throne in Hell, has another agenda.

Allah akbar! May the Lord prevail in this final battle between Good and Evil!

Posted by Donald Webber @ 04/11/2003 03:30 PM EST

As I watched those "Historic" scenes, my overriding reaction was pretty much the same as yours.
Not only did I feel ashamed; outraged, and saddened that such a glaringly obvious SHAM was unfolding before me: besides a watching worldwide audience, but I also couldn't help but laugh at the sheer incredulity > audacity of it all.
If someone had proffered forth this scenario as a Movie Script, Hollywood Producers would probably deem it too far fetched!

What an earth are the Warmongering Crusaders gonna dream up next?
How many people on all sides will be sacrificed by the time that this SICK SNUFF MOVIE is finished?

Posted by Mother Of The World @ 04/11/2003 03:41 PM EST

Alrighty then, everybody just get a grip. First of all VOX you are the MAN!. Your words cut with laser percision and pinpoint accuracy, Whew! You are a breath of fresh air to those of us who know the "NEWS" is bull!@#%^! Those of you who can't stand the heat , please exit kitchen stage right! With all the major media catering to the MORON NATION of right wing
nutcases, I find it refreshing to find a source of commentary (That's what it is folks, that's what all news is folks! The media should call it what it is. Intelligent people should always have more than one source of info. Unfortunately for U.S., many sources =one source.) that cuts to the heart of the matter. If the critics of VOX want Joe Scorboroughs of the world to tell you how to think, and define for you what a patriot is and any number of things American, have at it. I'll keep my VOX if you please. DIANA NEILSEN what the %^%$ is your problem! "Criminal Black Element..." there's a criminal element alright and it ain't Black sister girl. Your unelected President and his unelected staff is the biggest criminals of all-time. They make Suddam look like a small time hood. True Saddam is(was) a bad dude, but he is the student to the true masters of crime. All that phony news from the Iraqi Minister of information, where you think they learn to lie like that? The US damn near invented the modern day BIG LIE, or at least perfected it. Before you start assigning criminality a color, check yourself. Truly intelligent NuBein's (Nubians who are in the process of evolving) seek truth and wisdom. VOX is a important source of awakening for those who are sleep and is like orange juice for those already awake.
Peace be with you...Imhotep

P.S.
VOX be careful dude, I feel the same as you about Bush,
but if something happens unexpectedly they'll be coming for you again, and call your commentary hate speech. Ease up, a little. Express your disdain without hatred so your critics won't be able to dismiss you. I want you to be around a long time, your brother in knowledge!
Peace.

Posted by imhotep @ 04/11/2003 04:31 PM EST

Actually, all those "Iraqis" you see dancing in the streets were raised by the CIA in chicken houses in the jungles of Honduras. There actually isn't even a place called Iraq and Saddam Hussein is a character invented by Wolfowitz just so that Rumsfeld can have fun with tanks. This whole "war" is just a staged event to put more money in the pockets of big Republican politicians and keep the people down! I hope we all wake up and smell the chicken shit here...

Posted by Mommy @ 04/11/2003 04:31 PM EST

Excuse me? VOX you are not the man. Sorry.

imhotep: "Your words cut with laser percision and pinpoint accuracy"

?????????????????????

Wow, you are a very special person aren't you? Must be nice to be privey to such secrets. YOUR VOX cannot back up any of his "claims" any better than the reporting of such individuals like Joe Scorborough (obviously you watch main stream news)

You people don't seem to understand that not everything here is black and white (that was especially for you Dianna Neilson)

As for you imhotep, there are many shades of grey. I wouldn't call this guy a breath of fresh air. He is just more of the same except he is on the other side of the fence. I think you need to get a grip.

Posted by agent99 @ 04/11/2003 05:05 PM EST

yeah lol saw that picture on that information clearing house page about the deucebag Iraqi exile posing as a resident of Baghdad lol thats some funny shit and theres that picture of that "breath taking" jubilation, hilarious shit, amazing what the baby killers and the swines in uniform will go through to play on the rather extreme stupidity of the american public (lets face it we americans are the laughing stock of the world for our redneck, burger munching, kill em all, obnoxious and extremely ignorant view of the world)

Posted by MASTERofYOU @ 04/11/2003 06:28 PM EST

God bless Vox,Chossodowski,Ruppert,Jones Horrowitz,Rense and all the other independent internet truth loving news services. What is needed is spiritual power to overcome the enemy, not bombs. They know this, that is why they keep us disunited. This spiritual power comes from unity, yes unity.Unite under God, call it truth if you want, or a pretzel, just unite. We cannot reclaim Iraq for the Iraqi people but we can prevent further spread of this monstrous regime if we just unite!
"Behold,O Lord, for I am in distress,
my bowels are troubled:
my heart is turned within me,
for I am full of bitterness:
abroad the sword destroyeth,
and at home there is death alike."
(Lamentations 20)
"then Jesus cometh with them to a plot of land called Gethsemene; and he sayeth to his disciples,'sit ye here while I go yonder and pray'.....'My soul is sorrowful unto death." (Mathew 26 36-38)

Posted by ciabuster @ 04/11/2003 06:36 PM EST

I would just like to type that of all the citizens of this country that are aware enough to see what is really going on in the world, it upsets me and some comrades that people are such sheep in this goddamn country. I wish people could at least look into the stories, not just the headlines. If 10 corporations did not own virtually all the media outlets in this country, we would have more diversification. I find it refreshing and somewhat reassuring that you and others administer websites like this one that tell it like it is...............

BUSH AND HIS FRIENDS ARE EVIL PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE CHARGED WITH TREASON AND MURDER!!!

Keep it up Vox.

Posted by Brian @ 04/11/2003 06:37 PM EST

hey vox heres a web site that deserves much recognition, maybe if these Wolf Blitzer worshipping idiots go to it and do some research for the sake of research and not to go and write numerous hate emails in all caps, they might begin to change their decaying minds http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/

Posted by Jason @ 04/11/2003 06:37 PM EST

Here's some more evidence to suggest that this
"historic event" was staged by the Pentagon to
manipulate public opinion.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=396043

From The Independent (UK)

US says flag incident was a 'coincidence'

By Kim Sengupta in Baghdad
11 April 2003

It was, by any measure, an astonishing coincidence. As
the biggest statue of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad was
pulled down "spontaneously" in front of the world's
media, the Stars and Stripes which flew on the
Pentagon on 11 September was at hand to be draped over
its face.

The US army denied that the toppling of the 20ft
edifice by a tank tower was stage-managed. It was a
coincidence, they said, that Lt Tim McLaughlin, the
keeper of that flag, happened to be present.

And, it has to be noted, the commander of the US
marines who completed the capture of Baghdad did
express concern at the time that the use of the Stars
and Stripes smacked of triumphalism. It was later
changed to an Iraqi flag. But not before acres of TV
footage had been shot.

Yesterday, the US army banned any display of the flag
on vehicles, buildings, statues and command posts,
halting its display almost everywhere but the US
embassy in Baghdad.

There was some suspicion that the crowd that jumped up
and down on the metal carcass had been bused in from
the Shia suburb of Saddam City. That was not the case,
they were mostly local. But they were the same people
who chanted "My blood, my spirit, I shall die for you
O Saddam" - until the last day of the regime.

Flushed with victory, the marines one spoke to had no
doubts about the war's justice. But when asked whether
they had seen any proof of a link between al-Qa'ida
and the defeated Iraqi regime, there was general
puzzlement.

When one of the few remaining "human shields" in
Baghdad, Uzma Bashir, from Rickmansworth, baited the
troops with shouts of "Yankee murderers", Cpl Ibrahim
Rahim exploded: "I scooped up the brains of two young
marines ... They died fighting to liberate Iraq. And
you stand here insulting them with this shit." He
added: "I am a Muslim ... and I know this region. That
woman is seriously abusing her right of speech."

Captain Brian Lewis, a tank commander, said: "All we
are trying to do is create the conditions for
representative government."

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Posted by razor @ 04/11/2003 08:13 PM EST

AGENT 99, you must be a newcommer, you sound like one. "Agent 99" isn't that the female character from which 60's TV sitcalm, uh wasn't it GET
SMART! That's some good advice to follow, dude. That was way too easy. I'll remind you all, the word is...COMMENTARY. VOX is laying down serious COMMENTARY, informed COMMENTARY. AGENT99 you don't see the big picture, but thats ok. I used to be like you, always seeking balance, never wanted to be called a conspiracy nut and all of that. As a child I did what children do, play mental games. But knowledge and spiritual inspiration have matured me and it will mature you too. See, instead of attacking you I'm going to share some knowledge... Google search these books ...the Kyballion, the Art of War, Operation Northwoods, Behold A Pale Horse, The Emerald Tablets of Thoth, The Writings of Ptahotep and... no thats a good start. It took me six years to grasp the understanding of these books and I'm still not thru, but they have taught me to see clearer. VOX is clearly writing from a deep conviction, he may not be 100%. But who is.
What you have to respect is VOX's courage. That's why African Americans still love Malcolm X today, the courage it takes to speak with informed conviction. That's the true power of good speech. It starts a resonance in your mind that forces you to re-analyze your understanding. Obviously your resonance has not been reached. I follow no one, but I do appreciate courage, wisdom and knowledge. I know what side ot the fence VOX is on. I just don't want anything to disturb the forum like minded people get to express themselves. I even enjoy the not-so-like minded, like AGENT 99, we couldn't communicate like this at work or in a restaurant without people thinking we were plotting a terrorist attack . Say anything against Bush and your a terrorist, come out the shower with a towel wrapped around you head you might get shot. I appreciate this venue. For your information VOX's website had been shut down and his home invaded.(That's how I know your a newcommer) People get assasinated for coming close to the truth. You know this. Since Bush we've had nothing but death, theft and trickery. Nothing grey about that! Daily people who used to rant and rave about how bad Clinton was ruffling papers and so outraged, now their singing songs of praise about Bush liberating oil, I mean people. And drilling , I mean thrilling the Iraqis. They sound like the Germans who applauded Hitler. Shit, the Bushes were applauding (financing) Hitler. Check it out.
Imhotep...Peace, Knowledge & Wisdom be with you,
and you too AGENT 99

Posted by imhotep @ 04/11/2003 08:24 PM EST

Hey Vox,

Good to see you back. I searched everywhere for you when your other site went down.

I am Australian but none the less the original American Constitutiion was designed to eliminate everything that Bush and his scum bag mates stand for. So I back you guys in spirit.

I am also a Christian who studies my bible and the best I can make out is that the Islamics will nuke NYC off the face of the earth. I think Bush has already started WW3 and I am waiting for the bang which the good book says will take place. When it happens, it would be best not to be anywhere near NYC.

Just my thoughts. I got you new URL off of a news letter.

Posted by Truth Hurts @ 04/11/2003 09:25 PM EST

In regards to the claims that this may be a war against Islam, I suggest all who dismiss this to consider the history of the insidious Jesuit order. This organization was behind the death of some 600,000 Buddhist Cambodians via Kissinger, done in the name of eliminating the competition. Conspiracy theory? That term has been used all too often, by the way, as a means of marginalizing completely logical trains of thought. The above "theory" regarding the Jesuit order is endorsed by, among others, Brian Desborough, a literal rocket scientist and historical researcher of the most meticulous nature. While I am not a religious man myself, I have been suspicious since day one of the blatant vilification of Islam, a religion that says no women, children, or living tree be harmed in battle. There are many levels to the re-shaping of the Middle East under way right now, the weakening of Islam is certainly one of them.

Posted by stratik @ 04/11/2003 09:54 PM EST

As an American, before the entire world, I would like to apologize for the crimes of my country and it's criminal government. Unfortunately, I can't do that you see, because it's not my country. The International jew has controlled the United States of America since long before my birth. Since at least 1913!

Nor can I apologize for my government, because the current federal government in America is illegitimate. The sitting "President" was not even elected and is hardly fit to hold office as a small town building inspector or dog catcher, but he's sitting in George Washington's chair in the National Capital. Government officials take oaths to support the federal and state constitutions, but they totally ignore them. Statesmen have not been seen in America for many years; most of the creatures filling the present Senate and Congress are paid prostitutes who don't even read the legislation upon which they vote. No tragedy, however, because few of them are capable of understanding it and besides, at the time when many bills are voted into law, the only thing written is the cynical, Orwellian name ("USA Patriot Act," for example). The nasty, nation-wreaking jews behind the scenes don't always bother filling in the details until after one of these legislative abominations is passed into "Law."

Once upon a time, most Americans were good people: stern and hard, but fair and generous. Once upon a time, most Americans were capable of thinking; their attention spanned more than 8-10 seconds; they were not taken in by non-sense. During the War of 1812, for example, the militia in some New England states threatened to go over to the British side if their governors commanded them to invade Canada. I won't criticize the troops, as most are still children, and badly brainwashed. Most of "our boys" have had 12 years of free, public fooling and are only semi-literate or, at best, can read word but lack knowledge of the meanings: words like "nation," "patriot," "country," and "freedom." Of these they know nothing! Someday, they may be sorry for what they have done here. Perhaps some will learn, by and by, and decide to join in the struggle to take back America -- to make it a real nation again, and to cast the filthy, deceiving kike jew from our nation and stuff him back into the bottomless pit where he belongs!

Mt. Tsun (American Anglo-Celt)

Posted by Mr. Tsun @ 04/11/2003 09:59 PM EST

Robert Fisk: "A statue of Saddam Hussein Was Pulled down on Wednesday, in the most staged photo opportunity since Iwo Jima."

Check out the photos:

www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2834.htm

www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2838.htm

www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm

www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2846.htm

Posted by Alfonzo @ 04/11/2003 10:09 PM EST

And another thing...

I watched the statue scene for a long time, wondering why the "news" cameras didn't show celebrations in other parts of the city or even other celebrants. The close, tight camera angles seemed very fishy. Even at my most cynical, I'd never have guessed there were so few Iraqis there, celebrating their "liberation."
Thanks for supplying that long-shot photograph of the area. What a joke! It just goes to show you: there no business like shoah business!

Impeach Bush (then try him) and deport his gang of "Dual Citizens!"

Judea delenda est

Tsun (American Anglo-Celt)
http://www.govnn.com

Posted by Mr. Tsun @ 04/11/2003 10:12 PM EST

POWER

"We must not become confused and deceived by their illusions. There is no such thing as military power; there is only military terrorism. There is no such thing as economic power; there is only economic exploitation. That is all that it is. They try to program our minds and fool us with these illusions so that we will believe that they hold the power in their hands but they do not.

All they know is how to act in a repressive, brutal way...Power...we are a natural part of the earth. We are an extension of the earth, we are not separate from it. We are a part of it. The earth is our mother. The earth is a spirit and we are an extension of that spirit. We are spirit. We are power. They want us to believe that we have to believe in them and depend upon them and we have to consume these consumer identities and these religious identities and these political identities and these racial identities. They want to separate us from our power. They want to separate us from who we are.

GENOCIDE

Genocide is just an intellectual way of saying: murder, because we live in a so-called civilized industrialized world, and because this world is allegedly civilized and allegedly has laws, they can't go out and call an act of murder "murder" anymore, so they call it genocide to throw another illusion in our eyes."

RESISTANCE

"We want to be free of a value system that is being imposed on us. We do not want to participate in that value system. We don't want to change that value system. We want to remove it from our lives forever.

"We must never underestimate our enemy. Our enemy is committed against us twenty-four hours a day. They use one hundred percent of their effort to maintain their materialistic status quo. One hundred percent of their effort goes into deceiving us and manipulating us against each other. We have to devote our lives, we have to make our commitment, we have to follow a way of life that says we are going to resist that forever ... a resistance: something that we can pass on as strength to the coming generations."

"A resistance where organizational egos don't get in the way. A resistance where individual egos do not get in the way. A resistance where the infiltrators and the provocateurs and the liars and the betrayers and the traitors, they do not get in the way ... a resistance of consciousness. This is our obligation to the earth. And only by fulfilling our obligation to the earth can we fulfill our obligations to the people.

"We must go beyond the arrogance of human rights. We must go beyond the ignorance of civil rights. We must step into the reality of natural rights because all of the natural world has a right to existence and we are only a small part of it. There can be no trade-off."

The above excerpted from: "STICKMAN" - John Trudell(Lakota Native)

Yes- we know that when you come, we die. Chiparopai, an old Yuma native

Posted by Pancho Villa @ 04/11/2003 11:48 PM EST

Ahh, mr vox, you appear to be having a total frothing freak out with this episode. And you know what? There should be more of them. It is very hard to convey the sense of absolute rage I feel watching this crap on Tv, listening to our own little john all smug and righteous. If you don't shit bricks, people may feel they have to tone down their own response to this fucking travesty. In Australia voting is compulsory, I have a fervent hope people will remember the LIES told by Little John et al, and boot his arse out. I fear that the typically lax voter turn out in USA will hand Bush victory, the scamming will just be the icing on the cake.
Give it to 'em hard.

Posted by o glennyboy @ 04/12/2003 09:47 AM EST

imhotep:

I am familiar with Thoth, The Mer-Ka-BA, Atlanteans, Lemuria.....Please save your over inflated ego for someone else. I am not an uneducated person.

You also made reference to my being new here. I am not. I have read many of VOX's 'articles'. I continue to do so to remind myself that if you sift through all of the BS the truth is in there somewhere. Wisdome is obtained through the many lives we've lived and I think VOX is very 'young'.

"See, instead of attacking you I'm going to share some knowledge"

and then you go on to say:

"But knowledge and spiritual inspiration have matured me and it will mature you too"

Instead you attack my character a little more indirectly. But that's ok, I see where it's coming from and I feel the same about you. No problem.

"For your information VOX's website had been shut down and his home invaded.(That's how I know your a newcommer)"

Actually, I did hear this. The difference between you and I is, I don't buy it! I think this guy couldn't afford his webhosting or something along those lines and is justifying his irrational thoughts (articles) by claiming that "they" came to get him. Like I said before, "they" could probably care less about VOX. If however, he appeared a little more rational and only reported the facts with less emotion, then maybe he might be a threat to those who want to keep the people fooled.

"Obviously your resonance has not been reached"

Don't you mean convinced? I'm sorry, but I have a mind of my own. That is why I am here in the first place.

There is no doubt in my mind that Bush is not what he appears to be. But you do need to "Get Smart". If you want to take down the bad man and benefit in the process you need to understand him. You need to beat him at his own game. Crying like a child who's parent won't let them go to the dance won't work. Crying won't work. There are people who will grumble and protest and then there are people who make things happen. Which one are you? Isn't it obvious that knowledge is not enough? The entire world is protesting yet nothing changes. Something else needs to be done. Think about that!

Posted by agent99 @ 04/12/2003 01:03 PM EST

You can be IMHOTEP

I will be KHYAN

Sorry, sometimes it's hard to be serious all of the time.

Posted by agent99 @ 04/12/2003 01:19 PM EST

99 what you got in mind? juss come out and say it and stop the mindfucking!!

Posted by max @ 04/12/2003 02:51 PM EST

MAX:

When a serial killer is on the loose a profiler is used to understand him. These are people who themselves are able to think like serial killers. The current President of the great USA is not a good man (understatement) If I had the answer I would be a very special person wouldn't I? I don't know. I only think the the most powerful country in the world is being ruled by a person with an alterior motive. If he is that powerful and that 'evil', just think of the type of plan and person that would have to be more powerful and 'evil' than him to take him out. Who is that person? I don't know.

Posted by agent99 @ 04/12/2003 03:12 PM EST

Do you think George W. Bush's mother is proud of him. her idiot son ?

Posted by Karl Denman @ 04/12/2003 04:08 PM EST

Do you think George W. Bush's mother is proud of him. her idiot son ?

Posted by Karl Denman @ 04/12/2003 04:08 PM EST

These devil worshipping spooks must have taken down my last post so here goes again- who do you work for, your bosses bosses meet in secret and their bosses have erected a huge figure of an owl in Bohemian grove to worship Satan who is in direct control of you and through your kind much of America. Get a life while you can . You are on trial while you exist on this earth and not all things will work out for you as you planned. It will all come crashing down in Gods own time.Do you think evil created this world? Look around you evil is destroying it, imprisoning it, creating fear and hatred and extinguishing life where do you fucks go from there? Straight to the hell of your own choosing.All this enslavement , death and torture was predicted exactly as it is unfolding in the book of Revelations. Look at the end result in that prophesy and judge its veracity by the accuracy of the events to date. Its a pretty good indicator of where you will end up unless you take a last second warning to heart - love your fellow man or at least the good in humanity. It might sound like a cliche but only till you try it, like most of the people on this board have ,which is why they have the decency to be here.God is slow to act but he does act and the current enslavement of America is its punishment of its own choosing otherwise the nation would not accept it. It would rebel against it. You are part of that punishment and are being used by God even as you rebel against him . However you do not have to be. You can be an instrument of good . Fight the good fight. Tell vox whats happening in the enemys camp.
Or was it you Vox that deleted my last post. Speak to us if you can. The spooks are obviously deleting a lot of it.

Posted by ciabuster @ 04/12/2003 07:43 PM EST

Often, I get questions from Jews, who ask me to justify my viewpoint of them. It is interesting, however, that I have yet to receive an email from someone who is not a Jew asking me to justify my view of international Jewry. Jews seem much more confused about this than non-Jews; it is, ironically, a lack of introspection with which they seem to be afflicted.

Most controversial, and literally impossible (in my opinion) for a Jew to understand is the definition of Judaism as a "spiritual movement of destruction." Having tried to explain this concept to Jews once or twice, I have pretty much given up on it. Hitler once had a joke he would tell about the Jews, saying that all of them were worthless except for one -- Otto Weininger -- and even he killed himself when he discovered that the Jews live off of the rot of other peoples. For a Jew to understand himself in the way that non-Jews who understand Jews understand him causes an existential crisis that has a terrible psychological effect, and thus most Jews are not capable of doing it.

That said, I will lay down the basis theory of creation of destruction, from the Traditionalist viewpoint, for the new readers of our site, so they can understand my personal underlying perspective on the issue (which is not always reflected in the material we print or comments others make on that material).

Traditionalism is a religion. It is an occult religion, and it is initiatic in nature. Occult means "hidden" -- it is a religion that reveals truths hidden in nature, and which aims at understanding the hidden forces that move the world. "Initiatic" means that it is mysterious (mysteries being hidden, or occult, doctrines), and that in order to understand one level of mystery, one must understand the mysteries that preceded it. You cannot start from being a Joe Dumbass walking down the street and suddenly understand the hidden nature of the forces of destruction -- that would be like giving the formula for gravity between two bodies having mass to someone who didn't know arithmetic.

Therefore, explaining how one arrives at the conclusions of Tradition takes a long time -- more than I can post in one thing on this site - - and has to start with the understanding of things that don't seem to bear immediate relevance to the end conclusion. Practitioners of Judaism who understand Judaism as an occult and mysterious religion -- just occult and mysterious in the service of the death forces instead of the life force -- tend to grab this concept immediately and don't need to ask questions; atheists Jews and liberal Jews tend to be the ones to try to discuss this issue.

In the beginning, before recorded history, the creative race existed in one unity and one society at or near the North Pole, and were distinct -- culturally, biologically, religiously, spiritually -- from the other races of the Earth. The Earth's axis shifted, and the North Pole froze over, and this race, which embodied the spiritual force of creation, left the North Pole in two waves. One wave settled the continent of the North Atlantic Ocean -- Atlantis. The other settled the far North of Asia -- Hyperborea. This race fanned out from there and went on to conquer the Americas, Europe, and Asia. They founded seven major cultural groups -- the Central/Southern America, the Northern European, the Southern European, the North Africa, the Middle Eastern and Persian, the Indian and the East Asian. They did not always remain white and racially pure in doing so; however, their descendents in each civilization remembered that their ancestors were white men from the North who brought them culture.

The people the creative races encountered were mostly non- descript. There were the blacks, who had spread out from a continent that drowned in the depths of the Indian Ocean. There were the yellow peoples of Asia and the Americas, and there was the red race of North Africa and North America. These people were not creative or destructive, but were rather blank slates. They existed outside of cosmic cycle, and they accepted the impression that was made on them.

The people of creation knew the laws of the universe, and knew that everything in nature was guided by cycles. There was a cycle to the day and night, and a cycle to the seasons of the year. There was a cycle to the ages of man, and, similarly, there was a cycle to the life of civilizations, and a fundamental cycle to existence of humanity.

The final cycle of man -- the cycle of recorded history -- is the death cycle, or Kali Yuga. It is the time when the spiritual force of destruction -- the force that opposes the essentially creative nature of the best race -- becomes dominant, and the order of the world collapses. This collapses itself contains a cycle represented by the systematic decay of the casts. First the world-emperor, then the religious caste, than the warriors, than the merchants, than the workers each rule and fall, and then there is Ragna Rokkr, the world is consumed by fire, and the world is reborn.

The agents of destruction are those who push this process forward. World Jewry is not the only agent of destruction -- all those who would seek to live outside the proper bounds of their caste and who seek to deny their inner nature are agents of destruction as well. The difference is that the Jews have never, or appear to have never, been a creative people, and are the only civilization known of that exists outside of the ranks of Tradition. I have argued before that Jewish religion was initially the attempt of a barbaric people to imitate Aryan religion -- something which they succeeded in doing in form but not in substance.

The agents of destruction attempt to propel the death cycle forward. First, they replaced the Emperor (or Pharaoh, or equivalent) with the priests. As Savitri Devi has argued, for instance, a good example of this is the destruction of the religion of the Pharaoh Akhnaton and its replacement with the religion of Tutankhamon. Then they replaced the priestly caste with the warrior caste, as occurred in Europe first during the collapse of Rome, and then during the destruction of German sun-worship by Charlemagne and the Crusaders.

The replacement of the aristocratic warrior caste with the merchant caste was the business of the late 15th century through the early 20th, when the last pro forma holdouts of monarchy were overturned. Ironically, the Guelph Ghibelline crisis between the Emperor and the Pope -- what Evola saw as the last real attempt to revive a real pagan imperium -- led to the Protestant Reformation and the assertion of the essentially mercantile brand of Christianity against the brand of Christianity that had accompanied the destruction of the old priests. Those movements which assisted in overturning the aristocracy -- the French Revolution in particular, but also the Communist Revolution in Russia and others -- in the name of democracy, Republic or Soviet -- were movements of the destructive forces.

The metaphysical reasons for the cycle of destruction are more complex than we can discuss in detail here, however there is no "blame" assigned to the creative peoples -- the broad masses -- who bring about these revolutions. The Emperor loses his sacred character through personal ineptitude -- such as in Akhnaton's loss of Syria -- and thus the priests do what they think best for the world, and replace the inept Emperor. However, the priests are not competent to replace the Emperor, and do not realize it, and thus the world shifts forward. Then the ineptitude of the priests becomes evident after time, and the warriors usurp the priests. The warriors bring war, they are usurped by the merchants, the merchants bring greed, the people usurp them, the people cannot rule, and the world is driven forward into final annihilation.

With that understanding, the nature of the Jew as an agent of destruction becomes clear. One cannot name a Jewish movement that is not now, and has not historically, attempted to push forward the cycle of destruction. Thus, by labeling Judaism a spiritual movement of destruction, one is not saying that they physically destroy things (though they do), but one is saying that they are servants of the fundamental force of evil that seeks to destroy the other (creative) civilization -- in all its forms.

At this point Jews usually ask why the "other" they are opposed to is "good" and "creative" and they are not. That is exactly the point -- while Jews can sometimes understand themselves in opposition they are not able to understand themselves as evil, because the things that happen when they rule -- the rape and murder and pillaging and mass destruction, the famine and the plague they unleash -- they see as being "good", or as not being the result of their actions.

A few examples:

The Jews conquered Russia and established the Soviet Union. The immediate result was the forced starvation of the Ukraine and the institution of a terror state. Tens of millions died. The Jews don't see this, generally speaking, as evil, or, alternately, they try to blame it on non-Jews.

The Jews, in conjunction with the mercantile caste, lobbied for
the destruction of Germany, and were largely responsible for World War II. They were largely responsible for the dehumanization of the German civilian population, both on the Soviet and British-American side, and advocated the annihilation of the entire civilian population of Germany. Atrocities such as Dresden and the rape of East Germany resulted. The Jews were not, perhaps, solely responsible for this -- but they were an integral part of it, and the impressions that conflict made on them are an integral part of their psyche today. In order to deflect blame for these atrocities and to profit from the war, the Jews invented tales of suffering such as the Holocaust, and gave the war a near mythical attribute.

In Iraq, today, the Jews in the United States are advocating on the one hand for war, and on the other hand for communism in opposition to war. On the one hand Jews like Madeleine Albright believe it is okay to exterminate half a million children in Iraq through starvation, on the other hand, the Jews leading the Worker's World Party and the so-called peace movement would exterminate millions of Americans if they were ever to have the power to do so. The Worker's World Party, which stood by the Soviet invasion of Hungary, is the moral equivalent of the neo-conservative Jews who stand by the starvation of children in Iraq.

And that's just a handful of examples. The argument to support this is inductive -- it requires observation of reality -- and it is an argument that is made by the weight of the evidence. Jews have played an integral part in too much evil to believe that they are not fundamental aligned with the death forces. It is known that there are non-Jews that are aligned with the death forces as well, but the difference is that there are not, and have never been, to my knowledge, Jews that have ever aligned themselves with the forces of creation, while the essence of creation exists within the souls of all white and non-white people who have beating in their hearts a measure of Traditional blood.

It is not the involvement of Jews in destructive movements so much as their conspicuous absence in the past two millenniums from any creative movement that indicts them as a spiritual entity.

Now what are the Jews to do. Well, the world doesn't have much good in store for them, as most Jews who've lived a bit already know. There are those Jews who renounce the spiritual movement of destruction, and while few of them renounce it for a creative alternative, some do live in eternal struggle with their spiritual nature, knowing that the force they are aligned with is the eternal force of evil, and that it offers them nothing eternal for their soles. Other Jews hate these Jews, call them self-hating and whatnot, but these Jews are probably the best of their race. They are very rare, and are often misguided into other universalistic, but not entirely Jewish, doctrines, but are basically good people who are trying to learn something they were not born knowing.

For the rest of the Jews, in this advanced stage, they are eventually to be annihilated from the face of the earth, along with all other destructive peoples and peoples who refuse to take their proper place in nature's eternal order. The advanced rate at which one sees Jews in power raping the lands that house them are an indicator that this pending doom is felt deeply in soul of the Jewish community. If their world is going to end, they are going to live it up while they are here.

However there is a God of Order. The Emperors of old were the avatars of this God. When the Empires fell, he became hidden -- a Secret Emperor or Hidden King. But he is He- Who-Comes-Back. He comes back during the Dark Age to let his people know that he has not forgotten them, and there are those who march with him to their deaths, and their souls are gathered in Valhalla, where they await resurrection in the new Golden Age of man. He comes back before his final coming for the purpose of reminding men not to forsake him; he does not come back to conquer until the end.

There are those who believe that Hitler was the last incarnation of the God of Order. Hitler, in his youth, was known to have had an experience where he had felt that the essential God of the universe had talked to him, and said that he would conquer and rule, but that he was not the One Who Was To Conquer And Rule, but he was merely the one that was paving the way the Final One. He lived feeling inadequate to his task, as if there was another whose coming he was waiting for. He was building Germany not for himself, but in preparation for that one he knew was coming. As such, he is believed by some to have been the Ninth Avatar of Vishnu; a preparation for the God of Order's final and devastating manifestation.

It is that occult aspect of Hitler which caused his name and his deeds to be remembers and invoked in the manner they are now. Every enemy of the destructive forces -- every little pocket of order that is not fully decayed -- is "Hitler". Many Jews know Hitler to have been a spiritual force fundamentally opposed to the spiritual force of Judaism, and thus they sense that he was something more than just another man who opposed them. Stalin purged them from the highest levels of the Kremlin, but Stalin was no Hitler.

Now I am admittedly not 100% on that interpretation of Hitler and the Third Reich, but I am becoming more persuaded of it as I learn more. It is so hard to know anything true about those twelve years of history that researching them for nuggets of truth is like exploring old tomes for information on the Polar home and Atlantis.

But there is a God of Order, and he is returning, and upon his coming the spiritual force that is Judaism will be annihilated. The Jews themselves, in their physical bodies, are irrelevant -- but all the spiritual forces that served the purpose of destruction will not exist after the earth has been burned, and the rebirth of the Golden Age emerges from the ashes.

So that is what is meant when it is said that the Jews are a spiritual movement of destruction. It means that whatever the creative peoples do to try to bring the world into harmony with its underlying laws and its underlying orders, the Jews work to create disharmony and to further the world towards its destruction in the final war.

All Jewish movements -- capitalism, communism, objectivism / "libertarianism", neo-conservatism , "liberalism", "civil rights", "democracy", "individualism", Judaeo-Christianity, and on and on -- work and have worked towards the goal of taking the Traditional element of society and moving it further down a notch in the death cycle. Thus Judaism is eternally destructive, and there is no "solution" to the "Jewish question" but the destruction of Judaism as a spiritual entity.

And note that the physical destruction of actual Jews is irrelevant -- all human life is transient, and all material things are eventually destroyed. It is the destruction of their identity as Jews, which is key; without the destruction of that identity, harmony cannot be restored to the universe, and chaos must continue to grow.

My Comments

I hope you see how this relates to "America's" Big Bagdad Adventure.

White's epistle makes many things more clear and hooks into seemingly separate belief systems -- for example, the "End Times" scenario of fundamentalist “judeo-Christians;” and even the American “Black Muslims,” who's mythos includes a North Pole inhabited by advanced scientists having something to do with the White race. The cycle of decline and the Kali Yuga appear in Hindu cosmology. Surely you'll notice a few others.

While millions of White people have been brainwashed into believing their own group is a “Cancer upon the Earth,” there are very few Jews, either pious or atheist, who will sit still to hear even mild criticism of International Jewry or of any aspect of Jewish culture or group behavior. Indeed, to suggest that such a thing as jewish group behavior might exist is enough to transform one into a veritable “Hitler!” If a jew will not be criticized, let alone run any of the propositions or postulates that (allegedly) illustrate certain Judaic and Zionist defects through his mind (a mind that he will usually insist is one of the best minds in creation) then what choice have we except to suspect there is something very fishy with this odd group of people. When interested parties investigate and study, they usually uncover much that supports that supposition. Many books have been written about it and there's a huge amount of such matter available on the World Wide Web (enough to fill approximately 3 CDs, in fact).

What can be done? And by whom? Maybe nothing. All organized opposition against the (alleged) jewish destruction of “civilization” seems to fail. This may be less a demonstration of jewish superiority than a damnation of the current so-called “civilization,” of which few would argue that there is much worth conserving. If nothing can be done, however, that's no reason to believe that things will continue to “progress” along current lines, or that something big may not happen in the very near future -- something, in fact, so “big” that human individuals and groups can neither influence nor oppose it. “Itz coming!” We can always hope so!

Posted by The Secret Underground Nazi @ 04/12/2003 08:30 PM EST

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm

Posted by Dan @ 04/12/2003 08:48 PM EST

US army psyops work for CNN:

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=12318

Posted by Dan @ 04/12/2003 09:19 PM EST

Ever hopeful, ever dreaming people mensching always scheming.
head exploding, essence screaming-
stop this fucking war!!!!!
Toppled regimes-peoples looting;
nothing's working; naysayers hooting. Where the heck is this thing going? Bodies dying; who is owing? Stop this travesty and give.
Seek the higher ground and live.

Posted by spirit @ 04/12/2003 10:54 PM EST

Hi Vox. I'm a moslem and together with my wife and many more Asian Moslems like me, had our highest education in the US. It was full of fun and freedom and I didn't feel any kind of prejudices or hatred whatsoever. I had many friends among the Americans and I cherish every bit of my experiences with them all. America 'was' a great country and there's no doubt about it, but it has changes to the worst by the day. I wanted to go back there with my family and to show my two kids my alma matter but thought otherwise because we are no longer welcome by the authority. Like me and many others, we feel that the US is now the worst Islam enemy. Believe me, your country is becoming a favorite puppet of the Israel regime. Get rid of Bush and all the Israel influence you got there and US of America will be great again.

Posted by Ridsect @ 04/12/2003 11:28 PM EST

VOX YOUR THE MAN

Posted by andy @ 04/13/2003 01:02 AM EST

95% of people who call themselves Jews are actually Turkish by hereditary race and only Jewish, by adopted religion, the motives for the adoption still debateably suspect. So there goes your story right there above ground nazi.From this one could argue that the Turks are the real problem and not the Jews but that is not the real question. The real question is where do you fit in to your own diatribe, leaning a little towards the destructive side if you ask me!
My advice is that you look into yourself and see the nazi within as others see you . In other words take your own advice!

Posted by ciabuster @ 04/13/2003 02:04 AM EST

sun, xplain 'the below' alittle more.
and what does your boss say about isreal?

Judaism is eternally destructive, and there is no "solution" to the "Jewish question" but the destruction of Judaism as a spiritual entity.

Posted by mud @ 04/13/2003 02:17 AM EST

DAMN! I think we made a wrong turn somewhere... AGENT 99 Truly, No disrespect intended. Obviously you are intelligent because you found this websight. And you seem to have plenty to say, that's cool too. We are probably closer than apart. We both dislike(understatement) the BushBoys, so until he's out on his ass, we are allies. You're from the "fight fire with fire school" or in this case "Beat the Devil at his own game!" I don't think that's possible, the Devil is at the top of his game and the clock is ticking. May I propose an alternative concept... If you're familiar with the subjects of the books I suggested (Check them out, if you haven't) then you must fight fire with an opposing element in this case. Lies can only be confronted with hardcore truth and honesty, cowardice with courage, power with formlessness, technology with nature...you see where I'm going. But there is room, for both approaches, as learned from Martin and Malcom, both were non-violent in the face of violence. Malcolm just had a little more realistic understanding of the problem, and Martin had more faith. I use these Civil Right analogies because I fear we will see similar responses from AdolphBush. Black, red, brown, yellow, even too tanned might
make you the next enemy of the state. Agent99 don't take my comments so personal, but I know I got you going a little bit, you were waiting on my response weren't you, c'mon got you fired up, didn't I? It's all good. We've got to work together because there are REAL misinformed (understatement) people outhere who want to blame Jews for everything. Judaism is a religion, Zionism is the problem.
I think the "Chosen People" thing is a little arrogant, but so are most religions. Jesus died for "ME!" Death to the "INFIDELS" the list goes on and on. Believe in the Creator of the stars , the moon, the sun, the atom and the molecule. Recognize the patterns, and apply your knowledge and understanding with a true heart and your Creator will find you and you will find your Source.Then flow with it.
The thinking that one hue-man is less or more than another hue-man is the problem. Each hue plays its role in the evolution of man. KUDOS to CIABUSTER for doing his homework; Khazars I think is the name of the converted group you mentioned. I think related to the Cossacks in the Steppe regions. Eastern European origin for sure. I don't think many modern day Jews are aware of the origin of their culture, if so Zionism wouldn't have a leg to stand on. There are alot of "isms" that wouldn't have a leg to stand on if more people were knowledgable of their origins.
AGENT99, I'm cool if your cool.
You have to admit the Get Smart thing was clever, you even used it yourself.
Peace, LOVE and wisdom...Imhotep.
Hey, I can be funny too.

Posted by imhotep @ 04/13/2003 05:48 AM EST

AGENT99 if your going to repost my comments pick the better ones or throw some fresh ones down yourself. You stepped over the good stuff .

Posted by imhotep @ 04/13/2003 06:34 AM EST

I was watching the Japanese news coverage on TV here in Tokyo last week at precisely the moment when a US tank round from a distance of 2km hit the Rueters temporary news offices on the 15th floor of the Palestine Hotel. The Japanese team who had the rooms next to Rueters where the first to reach the shattered room and went into angered rage at seeing their campanions literally ripped to shreds laying on the floor and balconey in their blood. That was the first time I heard a Japanese journalist lose composure and scream in perectly clear english on national television, "FUCK!" It was absolutely horrible and you will not see any of this on the controlled media there in America because its been entirely sanitized. This "war" seems to be a god damn sporting event for the mentally shallow.

Also, if you want any proof of the reality of war with streams of warm strips of bloody human flesh hanging from trees, stone fences and cars than pick up copies of any of the Japanese weekly magazines here in Tokyo and your fucking sheltered lives I hope will turn to shit as you stare in absolute horror and shock at what the cold hard rationality of an exploding 85 grain semi-jacketed round traveling at almost 3,000fps will do to the head of a man who can not understand the irrationally of events around him.

Try finding pictures like this in Time, Newsweek, The Wall Street Journal or most other "news publications" there in, what the fuck planet did you say it was? America?

Posted by Ben Had @ 04/13/2003 09:20 AM EST

This site not have the word "news" in it anywhere. You do make a good point in that CNN should not be completely trusted, but you go too far in saying that it is "all lies". Of course people that watch CNN need to remember that it is a biased source of information, but so are you. I feel quite confident in asserting that you are far more biased than CNN. You make the blanket statement that everying on Cnn is a lie, and then expand it to say that everything we are told by this administration is a lie, and then you rant about "Lieworld". The solider who said he was there to "secure the area and let the press do their thing" didn't slip up. That's the truth, and I'm sure he had no problem saying that. Yes, the whole event was a photo-op. So what? Does that mean that some of the Iraqi people can't be genuinely glad that Saddam has been apparently ousted? You rant about how bush is the most hated man on Earth (what a revelation), well Saddam was perhaps not hated by as many people, but I guarantee they hate him alot more than you hate Bush. You need to calm down if you want people to take you seriously. This war is of course being sanitized and white-washed, every party to a war tries to provide news coverage that makes them look like the "good guys" and show how they are destroying an evil. That doesn't mean that because they spin the news, everything they say is total BS. You simply have to filter the BS. Yes, this war was started under dubious circumstances. Yes, Dick Cheney, Richard Perle, and other memebers of the Defense Department Advisory Board have an economic interest in this war. And yes, the manner in which this war was started should require that President Bush be at least charged with war crimes. But don't just start shouting that everything is a CIA lie and that CNN is a tool of the administration. You are spreading total misinformation, and are as much in error as CNN, Time, and AOL. Try and help people see through the smoke, don't blow more in their face.
Daniel Moore

Posted by Argus @ 04/13/2003 03:57 PM EST

Something stinks. I'm still waiting for the "proof" that Iraq posessed weapons of mass destruction. Hell, I'm still waiting for the "proof" that 9-11 wasn't a black ops project.

I give it 30 days before Dubya announces that the U.S. government has "proof" that Syria is harboring war criminals, just wait and see. The drums are beating already on CIANN.

Posted by Fool Me Once @ 04/13/2003 04:13 PM EST